Author Topic: Running Graphics cards in SLI  (Read 2548 times)

Offline swoopy

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« on: February 29, 2008, 09:30:26 AM »
Im building a new system and i am just wondering if my PSU of 550W will need upgrading if i am running 2 cards in SLI

They are 2 Geforce 8800GTS 320MB, see link below

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=343484

Or is it worth just getting one card? say the one below

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=332049

Which of the two would perform better?
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Offline Krusty

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2008, 10:03:23 AM »
You spend 2x as much (or MORE, for the motherboard) for a small extra % of FPS.

It's not worth it. The efficiency just isn't there, and it's like welding 2 cars together side by side, expecting them to go 2x as fast. Well, for the most part they're going to almost perform the same as a single car.


SLI is only for folks with far too much money and who savor/crave the difference between 250fps and 260fps.

Offline swoopy

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2008, 10:04:24 AM »
thx krusty for the info :aok
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Offline humble

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2008, 10:07:17 AM »
That depends on your PS. Not all 550W PS's are equal. If its an ANTEC I'd say probably not, but if its an OCZ, PC power and cooling, seasonic or other current top end PS then your probably good depending on how your 12V rails are set. You'd need a PS that has enough dedicated constant power to your 12V rails (and had enough of them)...probably 42 amps min for SLI...

I like the OCZ PS's alot but if the extra bucks are OK then this is a sweet deal...

seasonic 650W PS

As for the SLI, I agree with Krusty totally, waste of money for the most part. If you do get a single high end card make sure you've got enough amps on your 12V rail for it...

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Offline swoopy

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2008, 10:14:06 AM »
If i went for a XFX GeForce 8800GTX 630M 768MB XXX GDDR3 then does anyone know what recommended PSU is?
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Offline Tigger29

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2008, 11:02:39 AM »
Looking at Tom's hardware guide, it looks like you'll get roughly a 20-25% increase with the 768MB GTX over the 320MB GTS, versus.. maybe a 5-10% with SLI'ing two GTS'.  So it looks like you're making the right call here.

If you have a good quality 550watt PS, and you're not running a ton of peripherals off of it, then it will probably be enough... but you'll be toward the minimum.  I would recommend going to at least a quality 650 or better though.

All I can say is... well I wish I had that kind of money to invest!

Good luck!

Offline swoopy

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« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2008, 11:22:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigger29
Looking at Tom's hardware guide, it looks like you'll get roughly a 20-25% increase with the 768MB GTX over the 320MB GTS, versus.. maybe a 5-10% with SLI'ing two GTS'.  So it looks like you're making the right call here.

If you have a good quality 550watt PS, and you're not running a ton of peripherals off of it, then it will probably be enough... but you'll be toward the minimum.  I would recommend going to at least a quality 650 or better though.

All I can say is... well I wish I had that kind of money to invest!

Good luck!


Thank you for that tigger
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Offline BaldEagl

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 11:45:38 AM »
To my understanding, SLI has gotten a bad rap because, until recently, the PCIe x16 slots could only accomodate SLI in a x8/x8 configuration, allowing only half the data bandwidth for each card.  Due to this, perfomance was barely better than a single card.   Newer motherboards have rectified this, allowing both SLI'd cards to run at their full x16/x16 bandwidth.

At Tom's Hardware, they actually recommend 2x Superclocked 512 8800 GT's over the 768 8800 GTX or the superclocked 768 8800 GTX Ultra from a performance vs cost perspective.

Performance would also depend on SLI configuration (the following from Wikipedia... note that in AFR mode NVidea claims 1.9x the performance of a single card... probably due to the master card having to consolidate the output):

Split Frame Rendering (SFR), the first rendering method. This analyzes the rendered image in order to split the workload 50/50 between the two GPUs. To do this, the frame is split horizontally in varying ratios depending on geometry. For example, in a scene where the top half of the frame is mostly empty sky, the dividing line will lower, balancing geometry workload between the two GPUs. This method does not scale geometry or work as well as AFR, however.

Alternate Frame Rendering (AFR), the second rendering method. Here, each GPU renders entire frames in sequence – one GPU processes even frames, and the second processes odd frames, one after the other. When the slave card finishes work on a frame (or part of a frame) the results are sent via the SLI bridge to the master card, which then outputs the completed frames. Ideally, this would result in the rendering time being cut in half, and thus performance from the video cards would double. In their advertising, NVIDIA claims up to 1.9x the performance of one card with the dual-card setup.

SLI Antialiasing. This is a standalone rendering mode that offers up to double the antialiasing performance by splitting the antialiasing workload between the two graphics cards, offering superior image quality. One GPU performs an antialiasing pattern which is slightly offset to the usual pattern (for example, slightly up and to the right), and the second GPU uses a pattern offset by an equal amount in the opposite direction (down and to the left). Compositing both the results gives higher image quality than is normally possible. This mode is not intended for higher frame rates, and can actually lower performance, but is instead intended for games which are not GPU-bound, offering a clearer image in place of better performance. When enabled, SLI Antialiasing offers advanced antialiasing options: SLI 8X, SLI 16X, and SLI 32x (8800-series only). A Quad SLI system is capable of up to SLI 64X antialiasing.

[EDIT]  I haven't seen, nor heard of a quad SLI set-up to date although some of the higher end motherboards now allow for tri-SLI with certain 8800 series cards, although space and heat are considerations.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 12:08:00 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Krusty

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 12:07:05 PM »
Even back before PCIe, SLI only gave marginal results.

You've got an interesting point there, though: While the performance might not improve much (not much FPS gain), you can crank up certain settings higher without as much slow-down (FSAA, aniso, and so-on).

However, keep in mind in Tom's Hardware list, that's just the "more than $500" or whatever price category. Only way to reach that price category (whatever it was) is to run SLI, and the only options are basically 2 card types. Comparing a single card to the same card in SLI still doesn't give too much of a benefit.


Note that in the less than $500 range Tom's doesn't recommend any SLI over any single card. I'm guessing it's just not worth it in most cases.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2008, 12:09:35 PM »
If you're worried about getting the "right" card, don't get the 320meg memory version.  Get 512 at least.  Skuzzy pointed out that AH will go through memory fast, so why get a video card that should be able to run AH with FSAA and high res textures, and then find out you can't because you're running out of video memory?

Get an 8800GT or 8800GTS.  Newegg also has a closeout sale going for video cards right now, with an 8800GTX going for under $300 after all the rebates are tallied up.

I'd personally go for a 512mb 8800GT right now, if I was buying today.
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Offline eagl

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2008, 12:16:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigger29
Looking at Tom's hardware guide, it looks like you'll get roughly a 20-25% increase with the 768MB GTX over the 320MB GTS, versus.. maybe a 5-10% with SLI'ing two GTS'.  So it looks like you're making the right call here.


For many games, and if all you're looking at is FPS, then you won't see much of a diff by increasing the memory.  But check out the reviews at hardocp, where instead of picking an arbitrary game configuration and then measuring FPS, they pick a baseline "no lower than" FPS and then jack up the image quality until the FPS drops below their minimum.

Hardocp's testing makes it hard to make pretty charts that compare various video cards, but I think it is a lot closer to how most people actually use their own video cards.  It's how I set up my own computer to run games...  I set the resolution to my LCD's native 1280x1024, and then turn up the graphics settings until the framerate drops, then I back off the settings a bit and play the game that way.

Charts showing FPS in benchmarks can give you a relative performance comparison in some cases, but it does not really tell you how good the graphics will look between those cards.  That's why toms hardware will show a 320 meg card performing nearly as well as a 768 meg card.  They simply aren't testing with graphics options that use a lot of memory.

I remember when everyone was getting the nvidia 4200 with 64 meg of mem instead of 128, because the 64 meg cards ran a bit faster.  But within a year, games were using 128 meg of memory and everyone with the 64 meg cards had to upgrade.  I was able to hold out until the 6800GT cards dropped in price because I had bought a 128 meg card, while everyone else had to suffer through the horrible nvidia 5xxx series cards.
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Offline Krusty

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 12:55:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
I'd personally go for a 512mb 8800GT right now, if I was buying today.


The Ge9600 line has 1GB VRAM cards coming out. Tom's Hardware has a review of the first 7 cards or so (comparing all to each other).


Personally, I want a 3870...

Offline alskahawk

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Running Graphics cards in SLI
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 02:38:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
You spend 2x as much (or MORE, for the motherboard) for a small extra % of FPS.

It's not worth it. The efficiency just isn't there, and it's like welding 2 cars together side by side, expecting them to go 2x as fast. Well, for the most part they're going to almost perform the same as a single car.


SLI is only for folks with far too much money and who savor/crave the difference between 250fps and 260fps.


Not true. Not even close. I have 2 computers with SLI. You can get up to about 80% extra video power with 2 cards. Not a small extra. Having said that here is my thoughts on SLI. A SLI motherboard prices go from about $80 on up. And I more than doubled my FPS on my 8800 system. And on another system went from about 60 to 135 fps. Note; a good sound card also improves frame rate. Added 20-30 fps.
 Buying 2-$200 cards to SLI is economically not a good idea. Buy a good single $400 card. You will use less power take, up less room etc. It will perform up to 100% efficiency. Later if you need more video power add another good $400 card.
 Power requirements. I would not recommend a 550Watt PSU for a SLI system. I have a 8800GTS 320mb video card. With one card you can use a 550Watt PSU. For two you'll probally need a 750 or more.
 For my 8800GTX's 850 watts required. I have a 1000Watt PSU
Go to Newegg.com and go to thier power supplies and check the wattage on their wattage calculator.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2008, 02:46:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by alskahawk
I have 2 computers with SLI. You can get up to about 80% extra video power with 2 cards.



Prove it

[EDIT: That came off as combatitive. I mean it as entirely skeptical and unbelieving]

On the same settings, everything else unchanged on a system, adding a second card in SLI does not give anywhere near that kind of performance boost, based on all reviews I've ever read.


P.S. For newer 2.0 x16 cards, boards start at $150 and go to $250-$350 top end. Average is $200-$250. Quite pricy for these newer 2.0 x16 boards.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 02:50:40 PM by Krusty »

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:32 PM »
Just for comparison:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2108&page=2

These are recent cards.

Note the SLI is barely much higher than contemporary single cards. It blows away older cards, but so would just ONE of the SLI you have installed.

How it stacks up in-game:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2108&page=3

Even at max resolution (where SLI gains the most benefits) it's barely 5-10 FPS more than a single contemporary card.


A couple of points that review makes are a little off, like DX9 games not needing much VRAM, and some other little comments, but the comparisons are quite telling.