Author Topic: An Inconvenient ....fiction  (Read 2278 times)

Offline AWMac

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2008, 12:07:51 AM »
*pssst* "No matter what Rev Jones sez, Don't drink the Kool~Aid!"

Offline Jackal1

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2008, 06:16:06 AM »
If only that were true. Unfortunately Gore added many more believers to the church of Global Warming. A church that may wind up killing more than all the other religions throughout history combined.

The good news is that a big majority have and are falling from the grace Of Rev Al after the magic is being shown as only smoke and mirrors.
You still have the super naive and the sheep though. They will always be there waiting for the next snake oil saleman`s wagon to roll into town or the Wizard Of Oz to direct them down the yellow brick road.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Angus

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2008, 08:59:40 AM »
Dunno about Gore's facts, only saw slabs from the film. Maybe I should however call him and tell him of bumble-bees in Iceland .... in April. As well as I'm finishing my field jobs in a time on the calendar where I usually hadn't started.
He could film that, and not use any hype at all  :D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 09:02:45 AM »
samiam.. I think you are fooling yourself because you want to believe that algor is right.   His science is even more off than the first UN report.   

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/print.php?extend.29.2

In the UK is has been deemed "propoganda" and sentimental blush with too many inaccuracies to be used as a documentary.

If you think moore is a left wing tool who lies to get his point across then how could you not think the same of algor?  algor get's caught many more times and lives a life that is the carbon footprint of 50 third world families all at once.

Why should I listen to the left?  My guns have killed less people that ted kennedys car.. I use one hundredth of the energy of albor... I don't have armed bodyguards like the people who think I shouldn't have guns and I don't live in a gated community...   

As for Ben Steins movie?  I haven't seen it.  I do notice that the left wing critics and hollywood types and many other lefties are all over it..  their protests are legend and the movie hadn't even come out..  so why would I listen to such a blatent hack job when they praised the likes of moore and algor?  Obviously..  they are not capable of discerning truth or.. believe that the message is the important thing.. not the content.

sooo.. have you seen the movie?

lazs

Offline iWalrus

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 11:13:26 AM »
iSheeple, why use CGI when if you claim something is happening you can just go and use real footage of that something?

Ok, I think we are getting closer. So then, he claimed that what was happening in the CGI shot was happening similarly in the real world? Maybe then you can tell me what his claim was, as far as his use of the shot.

CGI vs. a real shot? I don't know. I am no movie producer, director, film editor, ect. All I can do is hazard a guess that CGI is cheaper than filming something on location. Though, again, how do we know he was claiming this was an actual depiction of real life?

Furthermore, what exactly is in the clip that is such a offensive claim? All I can see from the video in the link is a shot of some ice shelves. It sure doesn't look they are doing anything spectacular like caving, melting before our eyes, or exploding due to solar radiation. They are just sitting there existing. We all agree that ice shelves exist don't we? Al Gore didn't trick me into thinking they existed. I already knew they did.

Go ahead, watch the video again. Look at the 5 -8 second clip. What do you actually see? Keep in mind that the separate shots of ice shelves caving, ABC calls, "actual video." Also, notice that ABC adds additional footage to their story from "The Day After Tomorrow" that Al Gore never used. But who eats it up? Anyone thirsty for the Kool-Aid I suppose. Burn the witch indeed. I'm sure Al Gore weighs the same as a duck.
That's all.

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Offline Samiam

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2008, 12:31:06 PM »
samiam.. I think you are fooling yourself because you want to believe that algor is right.   His science is even more off than the first UN report.   


The difference between Al Gore and Michael Moore (and Ben Stein) is that the latter are completely intellectually dishonest.

There's a whole bunch of (scary, but otherwise bright) folks who have tons of evidence to show you proving that the 9/11 attacks were a Bush conspiracy. There are as many who will dispute climate change. That doesn't change the fact that Al Gore, for the most part, represented the science correctly.

I can at least appreciate that distinction between him and the wackos without buying into the left wing agenda that climate change is a) a looming disaster form mankind, or b) that government policy plays any role in a "fix".

Gore, at least, believes what he is saying and mostly is backed up by a preponderance of existing scientific research.

I think we agree that Gore's agenda is misguided and possibly very bad for the global economy, which, as AKIron points out, has much more direct impact on the well being of mankind. I'm just not willing to toss Gore into the same slimy cesspool where Moore and Stein lurk.

Offline Donzo

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2008, 12:53:14 PM »
I'm just not willing to toss Gore into the same slimy cesspool where Moore and Stein lurk.

I am...hell he probably invented the slimy cesspool.

Offline lazs2

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2008, 02:15:21 PM »
sorry samiam.. I have not seen the Stein movie but I bet there are less inaccuracies in it than in algors.   Algor also flat out lied.. over and over.. there can be no other explanation for the things he was saying.. he could not have done even cursory research and come up with such BS.   the science in his movie is just horrible..  the drama queen stuff is even worse..  he is a lying, self important ahole.   

moore is of the same cloth.. the message is the important thing to him.. if the facts don't work or are not sensational enough..  then..  exactly like albor.. he just makes em up.. he lies.   

I don't know about the Stein movie.. maybe he is lying but.. the "science" is good.. by your criteria.. he should be absolved of any errors since.. his message is basically correct.. there is indeed an agenda to silence and persecute those who believe in ID in the halls of academia.. 

you seem to be selective, based on what you yourself would like to believe,  in how you judge.

you believe man is heating up the planet.. that we are the biggest contributors to the global climate sooo.. you excuse any trash movie that gets that message out. 

Have you seen Steins movie?

I watched the albor one after it came on cable so that he wouldn't get any of my money.. it was horrible..  I had to take it in two or three sittings since I would walk out in disgust every time.

lazs

Offline Samiam

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2008, 06:10:29 PM »
Yes, and Stein absolutely does NOT have the "science" correct - as he completely throws science out the window.

As I've pointed out in another thread, there is no "agenda" in science to silence and persecute those who believe in ID.

There is an agenda to be perfectly clear that ID is NOT SCIENCE. As soon as "magic happened" enters the conversation - by definition - it's no longer science. That's all.

Saying that academia persecutes IDers is false on the face of it.

Scientists DO eschew IDers in the same way that the Catholic church would any Muslim or Jew who wanted to be a priest. As soon as you say, "Christ did not rise", you are outside the realm of Christianity and, however right you may be, you have no business being a priest and the Catholic church is well within its right turn its nose up at your desire to join the priesthood.

Same for any so-called scientist who uses "magic happened" as part of his "scientific" research. At that point, he's no longer doing science. Even if he's 100% correct - it's not science.

Stein is also guilty of, among other things, staging the lecture (it was cast with paid movie extras and applause was fake), completely misrepresenting the cases of the "persecuted" "scientists", and selectively quoting Darwin in very misleading ways (just as Moore selectively used snippets of Charlton Heston's speeches).

Same watermelon - different wacko agenda in my book.

Offline Donzo

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2008, 09:58:02 PM »

Stein is also guilty of, among other things, staging the lecture (it was cast with paid movie extras and applause was fake), completely misrepresenting the cases of the "persecuted" "scientists", and selectively quoting Darwin in very misleading ways (just as Moore selectively used snippets of Charlton Heston's speeches).

Can you point me in the direction of proof of this?

Offline Leslie

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2008, 10:23:06 PM »
I will attempt to answer Walrus' question about why the usage of the CGI raised a red flag to me.  First, there is nothing wrong with using CGI to illustrate something which is occurring, as long as the viewer can reasonably ascertain the imagery is computer generated.  The glacier scenery is harmless because it represents reality.  Nothing is going on there in that scene except a view of glaciers.  The scenery is beautiful, and maybe even enhanced using the computer.  Nothing wrong with that at all. So far so good.

I have not seen Al Gore's movie, so I have not read the credits.  I have tried to locate the credits using Google unsuccessfully.  It likely is a moot point whether permission was granted to place the scenery, as it is only a few seconds of footage, does not damage the movie from which it was borrowed, and the messages of both movies are similar.  As was pointed out, one of the (original) movies' directors was delighted that scene was included.  There probably is no lawsuit to worry about because the message of both movies are in agreement.

All in all, that CGI shot in and of itself is not a big deal.  As I said, I have not seen the movie credits, so there may well be mention of the borrowed segment.  However that mention should be there if it is not, and this is why.

It used to be that it was easy to tell if something was a special effect.  Computer generated imagery is so good nowadays that it is hard to tell what is real and what is not.  I watched a show on tv a couple months ago which was about scientists in a sailboat time machine.  They started in modern times and went further back in time on each successive voyage, stopping awhile during certain time periods and diving underwater with cameras.  I started watching this show about a half-hour into the action.  To make a long story short, I was completely fooled that what I was watching wasn't real, until it was obvious the sea creatures were computer generated.  In other words, the CGI was so good (along with the dialog) I thought the giant sharks these scientists were "filming" were real.  I thought the show I was watching was modern day reality. It wasn't until they started diving amongst giant crocodile-like creatures that I began to realize something was amiss.  I was completely fooled for about an hour into the show (having come in after it had started and not knowing the nature of the movie.)  Needless to say, this was a little disconcerting and confusing to me because I thought they were filming the real thing.  I thought I was watching real footage of prehistoric creatures somehow existing today.  Some new and fantastic discovery being filmed.  Once I realized it was CGI, I couldn't believe that for awhile I thought what I was watching was real.  It was that good.

Here is the problem as I see it.  This day and age it is pretty easy to fool people with CGI.  There is a danger it will work its way into news clips, and I believe it has already been done with photography in the newspaper.  Of course we all know about photoshop.  The bottom line is, folks are wary of this and become rightfully upset whenever it is exposed being used by trusted news sources.

There is no real harm done by the short CGI segment in Gore's movie if it is properly identified as being CGI.  The harm would come if it is not identified as being CGI, presented as real.  Not so much from the harmless clip segment of a glacier just being there, but from the idea that CGI was used for that segment and could have been used in other parts of the movie too.  And then the question arises, which other parts might it have been used in?  While not intentionally lying perhaps, a seeming harmless and minor oversight on the part of a director or whoever is responsible for movie credits and pertinent information, could undermine a movies' trustworthiness.  It could potentially call in question source credentials required of an educational film presented as a documentary.  Gore's movie is designed to move people to action.  Naturally it is under close scrutiny.

If the credits mention the presence of CGI, then any concerns of visual manipulation and, by extension, possible misinformation would be properly addressed and not an issue.  If the credits are not there, it is an oversight which should be tended to.



Les







Offline Samiam

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2008, 10:46:04 PM »
Can you point me in the direction of proof of this?

Well, this web site gives the facts about the "expelled" - and these are verifiable: http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth.

And here's info which shows how similar Stein is to Michael Moore: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know.

Offline Mini D

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2008, 01:12:18 AM »
Is anyone using the term "climate change" these days that was using the term "global warming" last year? I really wonder why that is.

Offline E25280

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2008, 02:37:10 AM »
There is an agenda to be perfectly clear that ID is NOT SCIENCE. As soon as "magic happened" enters the conversation - by definition - it's no longer science. That's all.

<snip>

Same for any so-called scientist who uses "magic happened" as part of his "scientific" research. At that point, he's no longer doing science. Even if he's 100% correct - it's not science.
Hmm . . . there was nothing . . . then there was a "big bang" . . . and then there was the universe . . .

Sounds kind of magical to me.
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Offline ridley1

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Re: An Inconvenient ....fiction
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2008, 07:50:02 AM »
global warming? Yeah...whatever. Warmest year in recorded history......and they've been recording for less than 200 years.

A pee in the red sea as far as history goes.....

Humans contribute greenhouse gases......sure...whatever... .the pine beetle in British columbia......the damage it's done, rather.....is causing more co2 to be released than all of canada's automobiles combined.

this is interesting

http://www.iceagenow.com/