Tell me about 190s

[Adonai]

funny they are all allied planes you mention.

ever thought that because the USA and its allies won the war, they are the guys that write the History? Would it be too much to say that allied aircraft only "won" because they was part of the Bish (err i mean allied) horde???

Exactly - anyone can argue spitfire won Battle of Britain (however what did the hurricane do then sit around and play cards?)
Spitfire was an excellent bird as an air superority fighter it did wonderful, however Britain had to introduce many other planes to pick up
where spitfire lacked: ground support went to the Tiffy and escort role taken over by american planes simply it wasn't designed and even when it was re-designed it did little in an escort role.

Same goes for Japanese Zero - great dogfighter, early days did its job wonderful nothing could match it. However 2 years later a fighter was introduced (f6f / corsair) and the zero was completely outmatched and couldn't perform.
Edit:
Look at the Fw190 - 2 years after it was introduced the updated model came out and continued to stay on par with american / british / russian fighters.

[Krusty]

I agree your initial comment was a bit over the top, and I also agree that the 190 was a good fighter.

However it was not a very capable fighter with regards to taking on enemy fighters for a large portion of the war. After the initial shock, the allies came up with craft that equaled and exceeded the 190 performance, and only at the very end of the war did the inline-engined variants exceed allied designs.

The 109s were tasked to escort the 190s while they went after bomber formations, similar to bf110s requiring bf109 escorts in the BOB. Hardly "proven to be the best fighter of the war"....

[Adonai]

I agree your initial comment was a bit over the top, and I also agree that the 190 was a good fighter.

However it was not a very capable fighter with regards to taking on enemy fighters for a large portion of the war. After the initial shock, the allies came up with craft that equaled and exceeded the 190 performance, and only at the very end of the war did the inline-engined variants exceed allied designs.

The 109s were tasked to escort the 190s while they went after bomber formations, similar to bf110s requiring bf109 escorts in the BOB. Hardly "proven to be the best fighter of the war"....

Mainly because 190s were drawn as buff destroyers, i.e adding more guns and rockets to the plane hurt its overall performance. But if the plane wasn't good explain why Britain copied it for a later design? Seafury I do believe.

[Adonai]

Look, I love the German birds.  My four primary rides are the 109K-4, 190A-8, F6F-5 and Spit XVI.  I just want to see the sources that back up the claim he made because I've never heard it.  Maybe the best German fighter.  I could have believed that but not best overall.

I'm not starting an argument or anything.  I'm just challenging his statement and if he can provide sources then great.

[EDIT]  OK.  I just saw your post.  So, "proven to be the best" was just your opinion then.  In the future you should add "IMO it was the best..."

Everyone has a favourite plane, of all the research i've done I concluded 190/P-47 were generally equal in all round as best fighters of the war.

[Krusty]

Sea Fury is a direct descendent of the Tempest family, NOT the 190 family. Early tempest models had radial engines, and then later models went back to this type (with more power, though).

[Adonai]

Sea Fury is a direct descendent of the Tempest family, NOT the 190 family. Early tempest models had radial engines, and then later models went back to this type (with more power, though).

Incidentally, there is a myth in circulation that the Sea Fury was based on the FW-190. In reality, the resemblance between the two aircraft is very superficial, and any consideration of the design evolution of the Hawker fighter shows the idea to be nonsense. The British didn't get their hands on an FW-190 until mid-1942, well after the flight of the Centaurus-powered Tornado that was the design ancestor of the Sea Fury, and the only major feature the Sea Fury owed to the FW-190 was the engine mounting scheme.

BRITISH WAR PLANES OF WORLD WAR II, edited by Daniel Marsh, Airtime Publications, 1998.

indeed I was incorrect - having to play the source game, not sure where I read but the captured fw190 was examined and incorporated into SeaFury.

[Overlag]

Everyone has a favourite plane, of all the research i've done I concluded 190/P-47 were generally equal in all round as best fighters of the war.

yup

p47 by far the best plane, followed by 190.

P51 wasnt the best, it just finished the job the p47 started.

[Stampf]

Discovered the 190A5 this evening.  Got a few kills pretty quickly with it, it felt good.  I'm told that the A5 is a bit more "turny" then some of the other 190s.  Is this impression correct?  It certainly feels more "turny".  What are the biggest drawbacks with the A5?

I've posted quite a few kills in a Mossie and I actually like flying A20s also, I wonder if the 190A5 is somewhat similar in flight cxharacteristics to these two heavier craft.

Just tossing out ideas here.  I find that BBS discussions like these can actually provide a great deal of info.

Thanks in advance.

 

The A-5 is a blast and a niffty little fighter.  The "turny" feel is not illusion, as the A-5 can complete a tighter circuit than the other A models, and of course the Dora.  Someone mentioned it is the best turner of the family.  That is incorrect.  If you want to get in and mix it up close, the best choice is the Ta152.  By far, the best handling of the series. 

Remember:  None of them are dogfighters, nor where they intended to be.  That doesn't mean you should not go in, have fun and mix it up.  Just don't get discouraged if you don't last as long as in say, a Bf109.

Drawbacks of the A-5 ?  Very few.  Small 7mm mg's require long concentrated, very localized bursts to do crippling damage.  500 20 mil rounds however more than compensates for that.  Leave the outboard cannons in the hanger.

She is the slowest of the group, but still faster than the majority of all AH A/C including the late war set.

Bubi said it well.  They are not fighters, they are killers.  They excell in wingman, squadron usage.  Very easy to get someone strung out in the drag.  Fight in the verticle, utilizing the verticle reverse.  Prepare for some grief from your enemies as they fall wingless from the sky.  That's ok, someone has something negetive to say about every plane.  Most of all, enjoy it.  The Focke Wulf FW190 is hands down my favorite plane of all time.

[Krusty]

The A-5 is actually faster than the A-8 in certain areas.

Without WEP it's faster across the board (similar power, draggier A-8). With WEP it's faster in medium-low alts where a lot of fighting is done, and significantly faster above 25k.

Climb rate for the A-5 is also considerably higher than that of the A-8 on and off WEP.

The A-5 also turns tighter than the 152 with and without flaps, although the 152's longer wings mean that when it stalls it will be an easier stall, whereas when the A-5 stalls it'll dip a wing or snap roll or something.

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=190a5&p2=190a8&p3=190d9&p4=ta152h

Food for thought.

[Stampf]

The A-5 is a blast and a niffty little fighter.  The "turny" feel is not illusion, as the A-5 can complete a tighter circuit than the other A models, and of course the Dora.  Someone mentioned it is the best turner of the family.  That is incorrect.  If you want to get in and mix it up close, the best choice is the Ta152.  By far, the best handling of the series. 

Remember:  None of them are dogfighters, nor where they intended to be.  That doesn't mean you should not go in, have fun and mix it up.  Just don't get discouraged if you don't last as long as in say, a Bf109.

Drawbacks of the A-5 ?  Very few.  Small 7mm mg's require long concentrated, very localized bursts to do crippling damage.  500 20 mil rounds however more than compensates for that.  Leave the outboard cannons in the hanger.

She is the slowest of the group, but still faster than the majority of all AH A/C including the late war set.

Bubi said it well.  They are not fighters, they are killers.  They excell in wingman, squadron usage.  Very easy to get someone strung out in the drag.  Fight in the verticle, utilizing the verticle reverse.  Prepare for some grief from your enemies as they fall wingless from the sky.  That's ok, someone has something negetive to say about every plane.  Most of all, enjoy it.  The Focke Wulf FW190 is hands down my favorite plane of all time.

Food for thought.  Try to help the man.  Not with charts and bs.  With "real game" answers.

[Krusty]

So, you think comparing the 190s and saying which one is faster, which turns better, etc, is "BS"?

Well then you started the BS. Sorry to tell ya, but I was contradicting the info in a previous post, not just spouting random data.

[Stampf]

I am saying:

In ACES HIGH 2 the Fw190A-8 is 15 mph faster than the Fw190A-5 WHERE IT COUNTS.  WHERE THE FIGHT IS.

I am also saying that the Ta152, is more manueverable in close than the FW190A-5, and would gladly demonstrate this to you, in ACES HIGH 2.

This is a Help and Training board, and thread, in which I am giving the original thread starter my in game experience in the Fw190 series aircraft.  Which I think he is more intersted in, than your "Data".

Cheers.

[Yenny]

Back a while ago, we had a discussion about tnbing Dora. People keeping telling me to go take note from Urchin,Moot, Stampf etc.. on how to tnb Dora!

I still stand by w/ saying you can only make the D9 sing so much before a well flying spitfire shut you up. The pilot skill means a lot, but the pilot can only do so much with the tool he's using.

[Stampf]

Yenny - "I still stand by w/ saying you can only make the D9 sing so much before a well flying spitfire shut you up. The pilot skill means a lot, but the pilot can only do so much with the tool he's using."

Agree 100%. 

[Lusche]

I am saying:

In ACES HIGH 2 the Fw190A-8 is 15 mph faster than the Fw190A-5 WHERE IT COUNTS.  WHERE THE FIGHT IS.

I am also saying that the Ta152, is more manueverable in close than the FW190A-5, and would gladly demonstrate this to you, in ACES HIGH 2.

This is a Help and Training board, and thread, in which I am giving the original thread starter my in game experience in the Fw190 series aircraft.  Which I think he is more intersted in, than your "Data".

Cheers.

Rubbish post par excelence.

If you simply dismiss performance specifications as being "data" (quotation marks set by you), you are actually arguing in a very ignorant way. I'm almost bemused that you even go so far to indicate that facts & "data" have no place on the Help and Training board.

Actually knowing and appreciating the specific performance of each plane is the base for every following discussion. It's forming the  very foundation, to which other factors that are not put into numbers that easily are added, for  example handling, views, particularities of MA combat environent and so on.

Relying solely on "ingame experience" may occasionally even lead to wrong conclusions about the raw capabilities of a plane, for it doesn't account for things like pilot skill levels, familiarity, prevailing loadouts etc.

Also, using caps doesn't automatically make statements true. On the deck the A8 is about 10mph faster, but that advantage is already lost at ~3.5k, and up to 10k the A5 iis actually faster than the A8 (up to 10mph). That's far from being "15mph faster WHERE IT COUNTS.  WHERE THE FIGHT IS." (Of course the far superior climb rate and better turn radius doesn't hurt the A5 either)