Intolerance in education...

[59funkman]

Why not judge suitability on SAT scores?

Didja even read Wrag's article?

Under the admissions guidelines to University of California colleges, in-state students must either score in the top two to three percent on standardized tests or complete a core curriculum of approved preparatory classes (called "a-g" classes) to be deemed eligible for entrance into the state university system.

[Motherland]

Maybe you can explain why religious schools in this country perform far better on average than socialistic public schools?

My guess would be that you have to pay to go to a private school so only middle-class-and-up families who care about their childrens' educations and no ghetto scum bringing down their averages.
But if you actually think it's because they are taught 2000 year old mythology then...


lol

[59funkman]

Yep, in this country, being rich and white is a much bigger indicator of academic success than religious denomination.

[AKIron]

I've been through the UC a-g approval process and didn't encounter any bigotry or even an opportunity for bigotry.  It's very impersonal, and based purely on academic principles.  Looks like the court agrees.  The only things that UC are "bigoted" against in the a-g approval process are poor textbooks and poor courses.  Religion belongs in Social Studies.  Anyone who tries to bring it into to Physics or Math or English is going to be rightly rejected.

And we all know how unbiased the Kalifornia courts are. Answer the questions I've posed. Why deny students who perform on average far above average based soley on their religious beliefs while soliciting students performing below average based on racial profile? If this isn't bigotry I defy you to show me a better example.

[59funkman]

What's this racial stuff?  Did I miss something?

Also it was a federal court, not a California court.

And they aren't rejecting any student based on religious belief.  Only that they did not study the required a-g curriculum and did not achieve sufficient test scores to bypass that requirement.  If we want our children to go to good universities and succeed, it's important to send them to good schools that prepare them for university.

[mietla]

The only things that UC are "bigoted" against in the a-g approval process are poor textbooks and poor courses.  Religion belongs in Social Studies.  Anyone who tries to bring it into to Physics or Math or English is going to be rightly rejected.

And why does it matter? If anything, the crappy books handicap the students, but if they (or their parents) decide to use them what business of the UC is to interfere.

What matters is the applicant's knowledge and ability. It matters not how he achieved it. C'mon, you are an engineer.

Many people home school their kids. I have a friend (the most brilliant person I've ever met) who home schooled his kids. Are you going to go after them next? Cod knows what they teach their own kids. Obviously we can't have people influence/teach their own kids. They are a property of the state after all, so they have to be taught "properly" from the "proper" and "approved" books.

Why does not merit, skill, intelligence and ability matter any more. The mediocre "educators" will decide what is the "proper" education, and Cod forbid some of us are smarter than others.

[59funkman]

What matters is the applicant's knowledge and ability. It matters not how he achieved it.

Again, read Wrag's article.  The a-g requirements are waived if you achieve a high enough test score.

[AKIron]

What's this racial stuff?  Did I miss something?

Also it was a federal court, not a California court.

And they aren't rejecting any student based on religious belief.  Only that they did not study the required a-g curriculum and did not achieve sufficient test scores to bypass that requirement.  If we want our children to go to good universities and succeed, it's important to send them to good schools that prepare them for university.

If you read the court ruling you posted the only specific objection to the text you'll find is one biologist's referencing one of the texts claiming that a christian must believe in creationism. That's religious belief and a federally funded universtiy has no business telling people what they can and can't believe.

[59funkman]

A federally funded university also has no business placing on its list of requirements a text that teaches religious beliefs.
I will read the full ruling though.

I gotta go now, catch you later.  We disagree but you've been respectful.  <S>

[AKIron]

A federally funded university also has no business placing on it's list of requirements a text that teaches religious beliefs.

Requirement implies there are no alternatives. They should be judging texts based solely on academic criteria and not religious perspective. Their dogma is showing and it's pretty ugly from here.

[AKIron]

A federally funded university also has no business placing on its list of requirements a text that teaches religious beliefs.
I will read the full ruling though.

I gotta go now, catch you later.  We disagree but you've been respectful.  <S>

<S> 

[mietla]

Only that they did not study the required a-g curriculum ...

why does that matter? test the hell out of them, that's the only thing that matters.

 ... and did not achieve sufficient test scores to bypass that requirement.

completely agree, you fail... no soup for you. Come back one year     [Soup Nazi]

If we want our children to go to good universities and succeed, it's important to send them to good schools that prepare them for university.

sure, but if they choose another method of learning why do you care? We've already agreed that what matters is the proficiency. I don't care whether they studied or perhaps bought their knowledge on amazon.com. If they are qualified you can't deny them entry, just because you do not like the learning process.

[SkyRock]

I'm certainly glad you did not write our constitution. Maybe you can explain why religious schools in this country perform far better on average than socialistic public schools? Ever hear the phrase, "the proof is in the pudding"?

Don't, you won't win.  The proof in the pudding is that private schools are not only funded far better but also average fewer than 15 students per teacher, also the socio-economic background of private school students is higher.  This is not rocket science, it is common knowlege within the educational system.  Funding, materials, student teacher ratio, and socio-economic background of students, are the sorce for any performance differences no matter private or public.

[SkyRock]

My guess would be that you have to pay to go to a private school so only middle-class-and-up families who care about their childrens' educations and no ghetto scum bringing down their averages.
But if you actually think it's because they are taught 2000 year old mythology then...


lol

Well, yeah this kinda sums it up, albeit in different words than I would have chosen.

[bustr]

From 59funkmans link to the first hearing and Judge Otero's decision:

Remaining as issues for trial are the reasonableness of Defendants' challenged decisions to deny approval for specific religious school cources under the A-G Guidlines and Policies and plaintiffs' other "as applied" chalanges. 28 March 2008

I read the judge's findings. For the most part the High School was trying to use limited statistics and evidence discovered from individules working at UC who are christian biased. They lost most of their standing to the "Lemon test" because the judge had to rule on UC as a faceless government entity. Not instead as the culture of christian intolerance that its governing body tacitly engender, encourage and support under the umbrella of being a government service provided for the greater good of the majority.

UC knew how to show themselves under the Lemon test as a faceless government entity. The high school did not have enough factual evidence to show a culture of christian hostility even though it's common knowlege. The high school made the mistake of "common knowlege" supporting their accusations.

It looks like the only case is the question of why out of state students from religious high schools who study from the same books are accepted to UC but in state students are denied with the high school being told they need to change thier curriculum to UC A-G standards of secularism.