Waffen SS Squad?

[Anodizer]

Those are Finnish 109s and their swastika was a different symbol, used before the Nazis came around.

Oh....Forgive me, I was not aware....
However, I am familiar with the swastikas different connotations and meanings throughout history....
Just didn't know this was one of them...

[olddobe]

Hopefully I can make this post w/o bringing down Corkies wrath about not researching anything before posting.He wasn't specific about any thing I said,so I'm not sure what sat him off.
The SS had conscripts within it's ranks,and not all were Nazi's.Some of the units fought well,others did not.When the war was closing,many of the units defending Berlin were SS of one type or another.The swastika has been around a long time,and the Nazi's don't have a lock on that one.
I still say HTC should decide on what squad names and cpids go over the line of acceptability,and leave the playing of the game to us.
Dobe

[BaldEagl]

Killing people because you hate their race - bad. Killing people because you hate their government - acceptable. Got it.

The Nazi's sought out and mass exterminated specific citizens of their own and other countries.  That had nothing to do with war or combat.  They stripped them and re-cycled their clothing, they shaved their heads and used their hair, they pulled their fillings, lined them up, sent them into gas chambers then burned their bodies or dumped them in mass graves.

I find it hard to believe that you can't make a distiction between this and the normal course of war.  I suppose you think the recent genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia were OK too.  Hey, it's just "war" right?

[Nutzoid]

Really? What is the difference? The only difference that pops immediately into my mind, as someone pointed out, is that bombs kill a lot more people. Is it ok to kill people when you are too far away to see it happening? Do you think the bomber crews were so stupid that they didn't realize they were killing lots of people?

Why not be just as deeply offended by a squad name that has anything to do with bombs or bombing?

The difference is because bombing in the first half of the 20th Century was very indiscriminate by nature. Sure the crews knew that they might be killing large numbers of civilians, but the job was to bomb a certain target. The difference between bombing from 20k vs gun muzzle against the head and pulling the trigger are very distinct. With one, you will more than likely have survivors, with the second, ........

[uptown]

The squad name don't bother me a bit.

[Saurdaukar]

Does anyone else find the squad 'Waffen SS' offending?

Nope.

If you are "offended" on the basis that they took part in the Holocaust, you might be confusing the Waffen with the Allgemeine.

[BlauK]

Even though you are not answering anymore, I'll point out the parts you missed.

To compare those men with Waffen SS men who did what I stated above...
They did not just, go to villages and shoot people because those people killed a few of their men. They shot them also because they were a different 'race', 'religion', or nationality.

I suppose you did not get the difference between Waffen-SS and Algemeine-SS.

Combat troops hardly had time to inspect and select people, they more likely shot them all without discrimination in those war crimes that happened.
The systematic genocide was the business of Algemeine-SS and of the concentration camp guards.

That is the definition of genocide. Not because they were at war with their government. After all, their country was already occupied.

There is war also in the back areas... partisans, sabotage, etc. I dont see what difference the occupation makes to the intentionally killed/murdered civilians.

Wars are fought, and innocent people do get caught in the crossfire.

The bombings I mentioned above were not just crossfire. They were intentional operations to wipe out entire cities, and they were directed primarily against the civilian population.

They were not honorable.
They should not be remembered as such.

Hmm.. still one of them was recently (in 2003) buried with honors at the Arlington National Cemetary in USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni
http://modern-war.suite101.com/article.cfm/us_special_forces_legend_larry_thorne

[iWalrus]

The Nazi's sought out and mass exterminated specific citizens of their own and other countries.  That had nothing to do with war or combat.  They stripped them and re-cycled their clothing, they shaved their heads and used their hair, they pulled their fillings, lined them up, sent them into gas chambers then burned their bodies or dumped them in mass graves.

I find it hard to believe that you can't make a distiction between this and the normal course of war.  I suppose you think the recent genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia were OK too.  Hey, it's just "war" right?

It's ok to kill civilians and wipe out cities if it is part of what baldeagl calls "the normal course of war". Got it. I guess I won't be offended by bombing then.

I never said there was anything ok about genocide or about bombing civilians. You are the one trying to justify mass killings. I'm just trying to understand why one method of killing is more offensive than the other.

[2bighorn]

Lastly, about the cold blooded intention. Just for the sake of argument, what is the real difference between Evenheim's example of "unit goes to a town and systematically executes every man women and child" and dropping the A-bomb to Hirosima and Nagasaki, or RAF bombing Hamburg and Dresden?

One is for the sole purpose of exterminating one or more ethnicities considered to be subhumans and the more you kill the better, the other to end the war as soon as possible and prevent more casualties.

If you can't see that, then I don't know...

[angelsandair]

With the bombings, it was made to demoralize the civilians to help win the war faster. The murder of their own countrymen probably set them back. As they could have used them to make bullets, planes, ANY thing.

[BlauK]

One is for the sole purpose of exterminating one or more ethnicities considered to be subhumans and the more you kill the better, the other to end the war as soon as possible and prevent more casualties.

If you can't see that, then I don't know...

Bighorn, we are talking about Waffen-SS and their war crimes here, not Algemeine-SS and the genocide.

[bj229r]

If I can't have a Confederate flag (which has been kidnapped by skinhead punks and the KKK) without being called a racist, then there can't be a Waffen SS squad (haven't read whole thread, anyone point out where they executed Allied prisoners during Battle of the Bulge?)

[Guppy35]

Hopefully I can make this post w/o bringing down Corkies wrath about not researching anything before posting.He wasn't specific about any thing I said,so I'm not sure what sat him off.
The SS had conscripts within it's ranks,and not all were Nazi's.Some of the units fought well,others did not.When the war was closing,many of the units defending Berlin were SS of one type or another.The swastika has been around a long time,and the Nazi's don't have a lock on that one.
I still say HTC should decide on what squad names and cpids go over the line of acceptability,and leave the playing of the game to us.
Dobe

That there were conscripts in 1944-45 Waffen SS units, has nothing to do with the formation, ideology and mission of the SS.  The post war revisionism that has tried to seperate the Waffen SS from the Allgemeine SS has clearly worked.

Liebstandarte, Totenkopf, HitlerJungend, etc were all in black before becoming Waffen SS divisions.

There is no seperation.  Just cause they had 'cool' stuff and ended up in something other then black, doesn't change what the SS which includes the Waffen SS was all about.

I spent a lot of years fascinated by the Waffen SS and the more research I did, and the more I read, opened my eyes to what it was all about.  We're not talking just Malmedy in 44.  Go back to France 1940 and what the Leibstandarte troops did to POWS there.  Check up on the Canadians in Normandy that were massacred by Hitler Jungend.  Spend a little time checking out the atrocities on the Eastern front.  Were talking far beyond the bounds of war which are horrific as is.

[SkyRock]

anyone point out where they executed Allied prisoners during Battle of the Bulge?

Bill O'Reily










 

[2bighorn]

Bighorn, we are talking about Waffen-SS and their war crimes here, not Algemeine-SS and the genocide.

Read the "Valhalla's Warriors: A History of the Waffen-SS on the Eastern Front 1941-1945". Nothing new in it, but nevertheless, well researched book.