Waffen SS Squad?

[Rich46yo]

Soldiers of every nation commited sickening atrocities in that war, including US soldiers.

Im not defending the SS, most of all the concentration camp scum that was integrated into them as Himmler ammassed more power. Had it been up to me we would have hanged every German involved in The Final Solution.

At the same time there were many SS combat units that commited no more atrocities then any other German army unit. And they most certainly were professional, disciplined, and highly skilled soldiers. So run along to a Library and read about what actually happened in the war instead of making a fool of yourself pretending you know it here.

Soldiers, real soldiers, have a sence of duty, HONOR, and country. Soldiers do not go to battle with the full intent of making war on civileans, in this thread A few peolpe have refferd to the ss as "Soldiers" they were not!

They were killers with no moral compass, calling them soldiers is an insult to every person who has ever been a soldier. I do not dout there skill in combat, they were well trained and for a time well equipped. This does not make them soldiers. The term soldier is reserved for those with honor, the ss had none and anyone coming to their defence is a fool.

I would never give such a brutal lawless low class band of thug killers such an honorable designation.

Maybe you would have had to have served your country in uniform to know what I am talking about, in any case if you did serve you missed something and I really don't care what you think anyway. I can't imagine what runs thru your mind to come to the defence of such a brutal racest organiztion as the ss.

And if you still don't get it, maybe you should ask some of the grown ups to explain it to you.

Now run along richie

[Guppy35]

You are blathering nonsense and show a complete ignorance of actual history.

If you think the Waffen SS combat units were not "professional soldiers" then you shouldnt even be talking to the grownups here.

Fantical is a far more accurate description then professional.  And please don't insult those of us with a history background with the notion of complete ignorance.  I'd suggest you do some serious research on the Waffen SS before you make that statement.  

I'll put my collection on their history up against yours if you'd like and it's not off the web.

[Guppy35]

Soldiers of every nation commited sickening atrocities in that war, including US soldiers.

Im not defending the SS, most of all the concentration camp scum that was integrated into them as Himmler ammassed more power. Had it been up to me we would have hanged every German involved in The Final Solution.

At the same time there were many SS combat units that commited no more atrocities then any other German army unit. And they most certainly were professional, disciplined, and highly skilled soldiers.

Again do some more research please before you go making those kind of statements.  Start with Sepp Deitrich and Theodore Eicke and their stories since they were the CO's of the first two SS combat divisions and then we'll go from there.  Then tell me about what professional men they were.

[SmokinLoon]

This thread started by asking is "waffen ss" ok to use as an AH squad name, The answer is "NO" it's not ok, period.

Soviet, Chinese units were not in the question, but ok, name those units we should keep an eye out for ,if someone trys to sneek the names in we'll jump off that bridge when we get to it.

These were not professional soldiers, they were killers ,trained to kill, yes, soldiers, NO! You say look at what they accomplished, mass murder is what they accomplished, the fact that others were guilty of the same or even worse is no excuse for the crimes these killers committed.

The war the NAZI's took into the soviet union was a war of "EXTERMINATION" the idea was that Germany needed territory to expand, "EMPTY territory" The "ss" Waffen or otherwise was designed to insure the war of extermination was carried out without question. Regular army troops were not trusted to follow these orders to the letter. That's why the ss had a separate chain of command all the way and directly back to Hitler.

You say you are not defending their crimes, you can't defend any part of them, and you can't overlook or justify their actions by saying that's not the worst of what happend during the time period.

By defending them you are infact part of the problem with how some would have the ss remembered as a bunch of regular army troops caught up in something larger then themselves and therefor are innocent,  NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! 

 "I was only following orders" is unacceptable.

Stop propagating the myth that these were innocent troops following orders!  It's an outright lie!

 And if your going to defend them don't put a disclaimer in there. If your in for a penny your in for a pound!

Nazi's and their idea's should be stomped out when ever they raise their ignorant heads.

Don

Your response is exactly as I would expect from one who has read but one angle (and a very narrow one at that) from the Time-Life picture books about WWII.  Even your "extermination" claim for Germany expanding into eastern Europe is wrong.  Also, I didnt defend them at all.  Never have.  Read and re-read my posts.  Both of them.  I simply make a claim that for people to soil their drawers over a unit naming themselves the "SS" is narrow when the bigger picture is not known.  I wouldnt want to be in a unit named after an SS unit, but to each his own.  

Also, the fact that you have blurted out responses to statements not made and answers to questions that no one asked tells me my hunch is correct.  I highly suggest you read what facism is all about before condeming it.  You have just stated that "Nazi's and their ideas should be stomped out always etc etc", but I challenge you to read into things and just see how many of "their" ideas are in use by major democratic powers today.  The 40hr work week?  Employee benefits? Paid holidays? Taxation policies? Social policies?  Read into it.  Keep in mind that when the Nazi's formed their party, exterminating the Jews wasnt on their list of priorities, that came to be due to Hitler's obsession not the party's.  Read the entire history of the Nazis and the "brownshirts" and learn how they came to be what you know of them today.  Their history is far deeper than the attrocities of '43-'45 (no, not a bright one but one different than most know.  The source I menioned in my earlier thread is a good general starting point).

santaana: I am hardly an apologist for Hitler and his cronies or the Nazis.  I am merely one to know the bigger picture and wince when a populist (and often very incomplete) view is puked up.

Back to the original subject... I dont think it should be an issue to have an "SS" as a unit name.  After all, it could mean "Super Sport".  I see them next to the Chevrolet symbol quite often.      

[yanksfan]

Soldiers of every nation commited sickening atrocities in that war, including US soldiers.

Im not defending the SS, most of all the concentration camp scum that was integrated into them as Himmler ammassed more power. Had it been up to me we would have hanged every German involved in The Final Solution.

At the same time there were many SS combat units that commited no more atrocities then any other German army unit. And they most certainly were professional, disciplined, and highly skilled soldiers. So run along to a Library and read about what actually happened in the war instead of making a fool of yourself pretending you know it here.

You just don't get it, the nazi's premeditated the slaughter of millions,(non combatants) they created and used the ss to this end.

 It's sad that you would give them any honor at all. I hope one day your eyes will open and your admiration of these maniacs will end.

have a great evening.

[yanksfan]

Your response is exactly as I would expect from one who has read but one angle (and a very narrow one at that) from the Time-Life picture books about WWII.  Even your "extermination" claim for Germany expanding into eastern Europe is wrong.  Also, I didnt defend them at all.  Never have.  Read and re-read my posts.  Both of them.  I simply make a claim that for people to soil their drawers over a unit naming themselves the "SS" is narrow when the bigger picture is not known.  I wouldnt want to be in a unit named after an SS unit, but to each his own.  

Also, the fact that you have blurted out responses to statements not made and answers to questions that no one asked tells me my hunch is correct.  I highly suggest you read what facism is all about before condeming it.  You have just stated that "Nazi's and their ideas should be stomped out always etc etc", but I challenge you to read into things and just see how many of "their" ideas are in use by major democratic powers today.  The 40hr work week?  Employee benefits? Paid holidays? Taxation policies? Social policies?  Read into it.  Keep in mind that when the Nazi's formed their party, exterminating the Jews wasnt on their list of priorities, that came to be due to Hitler's obsession not the party's.  Read the entire history of the Nazis and the "brownshirts" and learn how they came to be what you know of them today.  Their history is far deeper than the attrocities of '43-'45 (no, not a bright one but one different than most know.  The source I menioned in my earlier thread is a good general starting point).

santaana: I am hardly an apologist for Hitler and his cronies or the Nazis.  I am merely one to know the bigger picture and wince when a populist (and often very incomplete) view is puked up.

Back to the original subject... I dont think it should be an issue to have an "SS" as a unit name.  After all, it could mean "Super Sport".  I see them next to the Chevrolet symbol quite often.      

Your an Idiot

[crazierthanu]

<INsert popcorn smiley here>

[Rich46yo]

You just don't get it, the nazi's premeditated the slaughter of millions,(non combatants) they created and used the ss to this end.

 It's sad that you would give them any honor at all. I hope one day your eyes will open and your admiration of these maniacs will end.

have a great evening.

Oh man and this kid is calling others "idiots"? You sound like your about 13yo.

[Guppy35]

Oh man and this kid is calling others "idiots"? You sound like your about 13yo.

Let me know when you get that research done will ya?  Theodore Eicke, Sepp Deitrich.  Then come back and talk about it.

[Bronk]

Oh man and this kid is calling others "idiots"? You sound like your about 13yo.

You'll have to excuse rich, he falls back on "You sound like your about 13yo." whenever someone disagrees with him.

[Masherbrum]

You'll have to excuse rich, he falls back on "You sound like your about 13yo." whenever someone disagrees with him.

 

[yanksfan]

Oh man and this kid is calling others "idiots"? You sound like your about 13yo.

richie, I thought I told you to run along little fella.

[BlauK]

LOL... so this is still going on 

Let me know when you get that research done will ya?  Theodore Eicke, Sepp Deitrich.  Then come back and talk about it.

So, Eicke and Dietrich will prove us that every Waffe-SS unit was full of evil nazis and they all commited war crimes and took part in genocide?

Next you will tell us to read Hitler's writings to prove that all Austrian were megalomaniac racists?

I don't doubt your sources or that you have read and studied them. I even agree on what they say. What I find lacking is how you set your argumentation based on the available info.

It is the hypocrisy in some posts here along the lines "they did it because they all were evil, but all our guys were good and heroes because they did only what was necessary" that bothers me. Surely they (the "good guys")may have done what they saw necessary, but the acts remain in some cases equally evil (note, in only some, because nazis are also known of cases of inhumane torture). For the dead civilians it did not make a difference whether they died from bullets at nazis' execution line or from allied bomb blasts. Even good men can do evil things. Admiting that allows one to evaluate the history more objectively.

E.g. yanksfan preeches quite subjectively about honorable soldiers. Is it only about "who started it"? Is it evil only to do something first and perfectly honorable to do it back? e.g. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/SoldiersKilled.html
How should one consider the whole organization behind this act if it is always about the organization and the acts of individual units cannot be separated?


No-one still knows about this Waffen-SS man called Larry Thorne. No honor eh? 

[BaldEagl]

I submit 14 pages of proof to the theory that history is doomed to repeat itself.

[Oldman731]

I submit 14 pages of proof to the theory that history is doomed to repeat itself.

You may have a point there.

Kinda scary.

- oldman