South Osetia under attack

[angelsandair]

I'm too unfamiliar with this incident to comment.
This is where Israeli fighter jets (something in the back of my mind is telling me they were F16s) bombed some kind of Iranian nuclear reactor being developed or something in the 70's or 80's, and some civilians were killed, making the general Iranian public (naturally, and understandably) very angry, correct?

Well, from my understanding, the Iranians had said out loud and publically that if they get nukes, they will nuke Isreal.

[angelsandair]

You don't see a bit of this in angel's opinions on foreign policy?

Foreign policy?

Just what I know. Unlike most stupid arse Teenage kids, I tend to keep up with the news. Form my own opinions.


Stupid arse kids are something like you'd see at my school. Kids who think our troops are nazis, 1 million people died in the war in Iraq, and cant state why they want our troops out of Iraq.


Compare me to Boroda and you'll see a huge difference, actually, compare any typical idiot at my school to Boroda and they'll come off way smarter.



Edit: After reading it, it looks kinda harsh towards you, it isn't. Please dont take it that way.

[Hangtime]

The Petro Dollar Disease... the bane of the west.

We have, here in the USA, managed to fund via petro dollars the islamist agendas... over the last 40 years we've sent hundreds of billions that way... as T. Boone says.. the largest transfer of wealth in history.

In Europe, the Russians have gone from selling off their cold war weapons for coats and shoes to rebuilding their dreams of empire... on Europe's petro dollars... in just 10 years.

The arabs spend most of the profits on toys, backyard lakes, custom private islands and the Chrysler building... they siphon off a bit to terrorists. Look where that's got us...

The russians are spending all of theirs on rebuilding their armed forces... they cry arms race and point at us.. meanwhile they're rolling reconstituted intermediate range and long range missiles around in red square again.

Hey Europe... If you don't start countering the russians now; where d'ya think the russians will be in 10 years?

Brussels?

[angelsandair]

Normandy again. Except this time, the Nazis will look merciful.

[FrodeMk3]

Foreign policy?

Just what I know. Unlike most stupid arse Teenage kids, I tend to keep up with the news. Form my own opinions.


Stupid arse kids are something like you'd see at my school. Kids who think our troops are nazis, 1 million people died in the war in Iraq, and cant state why they want our troops out of Iraq.


Compare me to Boroda and you'll see a huge difference, actually, compare any typical idiot at my school to Boroda and they'll come off way smarter.



Edit: After reading it, it looks kinda harsh towards you, it isn't. Please dont take it that way.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. You might bruise something besides' your ego someday. Boroda is as wildly full of nationalistic fervor as you are. More so, looking at the way he will ride some arguments' not only down in flames, but to the junkyard as well. I think Hangtime did say it best earlier when he described Boroda. You actually need to jump back an look at some of the things' you've said yourself.

[Motherland]

Normandy again. Except this time, the Nazis will look merciful.

I tend to have a bit of faith that the Russians have become less barbaric than they were in WWII. Maybe not as much faith as I hope, and fear a bit that they aren't. If by some twist of fate Russia ended up on top in a war that never went nuclear and invaded the US on land, you better hope their conduct has improved since WWII.
Reading Hartmann's account of his treatment by the Soviets upon his & many German civilians capture and 10 years as a POW makes you fear the Bear, even as a civilian.

[SkyRock]

hello fellas, nice thread.  I don't look down on russia.  They do alright.  We all have to stick together anyway.

I caught this female alien at Mars2112 in Manhattan, trying to whooo my children as she desperately tries to make contact with the mother ship out of her top left view.  Right after I snapped this picture, I called a russian airstrike in on the area as president bush read a bedtime story to his pet rock:











 





Mark

[angelsandair]

I tend to have a bit of faith that the Russians have become less barbaric than they were in WWII. Maybe not as much faith as I hope, and fear a bit that they aren't. If by some twist of fate Russia ended up on top in a war that never went nuclear and invaded the US on land, you better hope their conduct has improved since WWII.
Reading Hartmann's account of his treatment by the Soviets upon his & many German civilians capture and 10 years as a POW makes you fear the Bear, even as a civilian.

Russians could never make it on American soil. I know for a fact that in Texas, people would be fighting right along side the soldiers.


I know that neither side wants a Nuclear war. The big question is, if it were to happen, who would be the one pushing the button first? Thats what could lead to the war, who would. If this started to escalade anymore than it is, I'd give out a speach denying ANY use of stregetic nuclear weapons if I were either leader. One small speech like that could save the world.

[Motherland]

Russians could never make it on American soil. I know for a fact that in Texas, people would be fighting right along side the soldiers.

There are always possibilities. Who would have thought that the dominant force in the Pacific could be destroyed by a crippled navy in less than 4 years? Or that the most battle hardened, advanced military in the world would be defeated after less than 6 years of war? I'm sure Hitler thought much the same you did going into Russia. 4 years later the Red Army was marching through Germany, mercilessly killing, pillaging, and raping it.
Also remember that China and Russia are good friends. We're up watermelon creek without a paddle without China (or worse, with China against us).

[FrodeMk3]

There are always possibilities. Who would have thought that the dominant force in the Pacific could be destroyed by a crippled navy in less than 4 years? Or that the most battle hardened, advanced military in the world would be defeated after less than 6 years of war? I'm sure Hitler thought much the same you did going into Russia. 4 years later the Red Army was marching through Germany, mercilessly killing, pillaging, and raping it.
Also remember that China and Russia are good friends. We're up watermelon creek without a paddle without China (or worse, with China against us).

There's a ton 'o good points in what you've just said, Motherland, however...

As far as China goes; At the moment, they are definetely in the top 5 powerful countries on the planet, more likely the top 3, when you consider the whole balance of Military/economy/size/influence. And through this whole thing, they haven't uttered one word either way.

What are the Chinese thinking? Are they looking at what happens to the total supply of oil if the valve to Europe gets shut? Are they looking at what the world's response should be? Are they hoping that the U.S. and Russia destroy each other, and just let the PRC move in to fill the void? Are they hoping there is no war at all, so that it won't disrupt their markets? And btw, China and Russia may have shared the same ideology at one time, but they've never truly been friends.

Much of the current foreign policy is based on the concept of China's peaceful rise. Conflicts with foreign countries have occurred at times in its recent history, particularly with the United States; e.g., the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during the Kosovo conflict in May 1999 and the U.S.-China spy plane incident in April 2001. Its foreign relations with many Western nations suffered for a time following the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, though they have since recovered. The relationship between China and Japan has been strained at times by Japan's refusal to acknowledge its war-time past to the satisfaction of the PRC, e.g. revisionist comments made by prominent Japanese officials and in some Japanese history textbooks. Another point of conflict between the two countries is the frequent visits by Japanese government officials to the Yasukuni Shrine. However, Sino-Japanese relations have warmed considerably since Shinzo Abe became the new Japanese Prime Minister in September 2006. A joint historical study to be completed by 2008 of WWII atrocities is being conducted by China and Japan.

Equally bordering the most countries in the world alongside Russia, the PRC was in a number of international territorial disputes. China's territorial disputes have led to localized wars in the last 50 years, including the Sino-Indian War in 1962, the Sino-Soviet border conflict in 1969 and the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1979. In 2001, the PRC and Russia signed the Sino-Russian Treaty of Friendship,[32] which paved the way in 2004 for Russia to transfer Yinlong Island as well as one-half of Heixiazi to China, ending a long-standing Sino-Russian border dispute. Other territorial disputes include islands in the East and South China Seas, and undefined or disputed borders with India, Tajikistan and North Korea.

While accompanying a rapid economic rise, the PRC since the 1990s seeks to maintain a policy of quiet diplomacy with its neighbors. Steadying its economic growth and participating in regional organizations and cultivating bi-lateral relations will ease suspicion over China's burgeoning military capabilities. The PRC has started a policy of wooing African nations for trade and bilateral co-operations.[33]

That bit was from Wiki, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

[Slash27]

If by some twist of fate Russia ended up on top in a war that never went nuclear and invaded the US on land, you better hope their conduct has improved since WWII.
Reading Hartmann's account of his treatment by the Soviets upon his & many German civilians capture and 10 years as a POW makes you fear the Bear, even as a civilian.

Would suck to be Russian occupier. Atleast for the short time they had left on Earth.

[SD67]

Of course if Russian cruise missiles or spec ops teams attacked defensive ABM sites in Poland, that would serve as irrefutable notification of an intent to launch a first strike.

If you choose to think of the ABMs as vulnerable and ineffective in that case, you'd have to admit that they'd serve admirably as a tripwire.

I'd think the signal to lauch would be given upon validated reports of attacks on allied ABM sites. Thus, it'd be a pretty stupid attack.

There's a lot of layers to an onion.

Anyway,Boroda is just tooting his country's horn. They been in the dumpster so long that this little military adventure makes them feel like Supermen again. I wouldn't put much stock in it. I think he's just entertaining himself.

The destruction of the missile shield would sever as a great psychological boost to the aggressor. It's not about them launching the missiles at all, it's about their inability to defend against it that's the issue.

US has the strongest military in the world. A posting of a fleet with a Nimitz class carrier would make a huge difference.

The difference between North Korea and Iran is that the North Koreans are atLEAST, rational. They'll know when they should stop. Iran doens't care. It's how they were raised, with death as something not so bad. Iranians wouldn't be afraid to die at the hands of a nuke.

Iran isn't trying to create a civilian nuclear program. Face the facts, they've openly said that if they get nukes, Israel will be on the reciving end.

If we're lucky, Russians (and us) wont give the tactical nuclear weapons even a thought when it comes to using them.

Don't be fooling yourself that you have the strongest military in the world. Yeah your armed services are great, but your economy is not and a military without the money to run is not very powerful at all.

[Suave]

I think that's why we haven't had even stronger action from Russia. They know that they are a token gesture - but NATO encroachment is something they will avoid at (nearly) all costs.

AKIron - not looking at this from a Russian perspective would be a very dangerous thing indeed.

Yes it's completely ineffective against any russian launches. Actually at this point in time it's completely ineffective period. It's only practical purpose is survieliance, that and making some rich men richer on the american tax dollar. Of course it's purported intent is a threat to a balance that has kept the peace. Sounds like Poland got a sweet deal out of it though, the US is going to bolster their air force and air defence. About time Poland saw some kickbacks.

The russian general really didn't threaten Poland, he just stated that obvious. That by making themselves part of a defense against russian nuclear warfare they have made themselves a target in a nuclear conflict. Of course Poland used to be a US missle target for many years, so they're probably not too concerned.

I was pleased to learn that the russians were working with the georgian police. Transitioning control of cities over to georgian police, not just pulling out and leaving a vacume of violence and looting in their wake. It's very good that they are taking measures to prevent this.

America says that it wants russia to join europe and the west. What russia hears is that america want's russia to become subordinate to america like the rest of europe. Nations don't have enemies, they have competitors. The two most powerful nations in the world are allways going to be at odds with eachother. A sad affect of the natural drives of the human animal.

There is only one way that a population that violently want's independence can be rules. And it isn't pretty. And is it right to do so? Is the preservation of geographic deliniations more important than the preservation of people?

Just like america, russia only intervenes to stop ethnicide when it serves her interest. I didn't see anybody clamoring to the UN's aid in the congo or sudan.

What we're seeing is a lack of ability to emphatize with advisaries. It doesn't matter what one's intent is, what really matters is what your advisary believes your intent to be. That is what is going to determine the course of events. If you haven't watched it yet, I recomend you watch "Fog of War", and then watch McNamara's interview with Charlie Rose. You can dig it up on the net.

And stop watching TV as much as you can. It really does make you stupid. It is a form neurofeedback conditioning, it trains people to feel rather than think. It makes people more guilable and susceptible to preachers (politicians) who use qips and soundbites to push our emotional buttons. The brain is plastic, it can change shape. Regions of the brain can grow or shrink, pathways widen or wither due to different kinds of stimuli. For example neurofeedback training, trauma, music lessons. EEGs have shown that a person watching TV has less brain activity than a person who is sleeping. This probably explains the reason why people burn more calories sleeping than they do watching TV.

[Boroda]

Boroda....look..let me ask you in another way.

Has a U.S. official ever said that the USE OF NUKES IS AN OPTION 100 percent? Just a simple yes or no will do.

I have listened to Nogovitsyn's interviews this morning, including a part where he speaks about Poland. In Russian he only said what a shame it is and it's a very wrong time for such decisions. He never mentioned a nuclear attack (or any attack) on Poland.

Now the latest news are that Russian patrols repelled a terrorist group trying to sabotage a tunnel between Russia and SO. Georgians obviously violate the ceasefire they signed.

Saw BBC reporting Russian forces in Poti. It's either a provocation or a lie. People with MC (Peacekeeping Forces) signs simply can't get there and have nothing to do there. The only thing they may do there is destroying Georgian military equipment, but I doubt it, it was attacked from sea and air, and this guys are motor-infantry.

TV shows huge damage in Tskhinval, no water, no electricity. Russian officers show a huge park of abandoned Georgian equipment from NATO countries and Ukraine. Nogovitsyn said what they captured already is more then could be operated by Georgian military, I hope some foreign "operators" are already being interrogated.

Vesti-24 showed a beautiful educational film on the history of the conflict, I hope it will be soon on Youtube with Eng subtitles.

[MiloMorai]

Boroda, if you lived at the North Pole, you could be sold a freezer.