What should be done about Russias occupation of Georgia?

[Elfie]

had SO separatists shoot at Georgians until the Georgians came to put a stop to it

I suspect that is exactly what happened.

[BTW]

They've out manuvered the world.

No, they've intimidated a gelded world. What they're doing is so simplistic a bullied 13 year old could see it. If you want perspective on maneuvering, listen to Gary Kasparov's take on Russia's tactics. He understands maneuvering. Russian thugs understand intimidation. HUGE difference. Russia will never co-exist. They need to be beaten down- PERIOD. They need to be B-slapped plain and simple. They are thugs ( i.e., cowards, opportunists, disloyal, basically stupid, and will not go the distance to WORK for a prize). We need to win a token military altercation with them. It will not be WW3. They are too cowardly for that.

[AKIron]

What? Can't believe this. Many men and woman died to get where we are and the suggestion of leaving and letting the Taliban have a victory however small is

Weak.

A feint to draw the enemy into the open is time tested. 

[Chalenge]

What? Our whimpering Congress stand up to the likes of Putin? What have you been smoking? After a 13 second stare down they would claim defeat and switch straight to appeasement.

[FrodeMk3]

How do you figure that?

They outmaneuvered this administration by giving away Russian passports to anyone with a heartbeat, pre-positioned a mech division in SO, had SO separatists shoot at Georgians until the Georgians came to put a stop to it and then launched a division on an invasion?

Where exactly in that chain of events was this admin outmanuevered?

IMHO, Toad...Putin simply waited until he had Bush in a situation that he couldn't respond to. AKIron's figures' about our military's deployment count the total manpower available to all the services', and all of the branches. It doesn't list our combatant totals, of which I believe all of our troops' that are free to act are commited to the middle east. We could respond with a CVBG, but I don't think anyone in the Navy or the Pentagon would want to risk one in the Black Sea-It's just too confined, and the Russian's are used to operating there. We could use airpower, but unless we could use airfields' in the region, we would have a hard time doing that.

On the diplomatic end, the Europeans' are gonna sit on the fence, IMHO. I don't think even Sarkozy from France will do much more than what he already has. I don't see the German's as acting very aggressively either. So that leaves' our allies' out.

The biggest win in this whole thing though, is that Putin wins' a big propaganda victory. He invaded an ally nation of the U.S., did whatever he wanted to, and left, simply having to wither some harsh words' from Washington. It makes' us look like a bunch of Hypocrites; we scream and yell for them to come and help us take over Iraq, and fight in Afghanistan. They do, but when it comes' time to help them...? Well, at least we could give them a ride back home.

I have a bad feeling that a lot of the nations' that looked to the U.S. to help them in a time of need, might be thinking of their other options. Like, going to the other big boys (Russia or China) when they get in a bind. We could have just handed the Russians' a bigger victory than we thought.

For what it's worth, Toad...The people in the White house, If they have to admit a defeat to themselves, so that they can learn from it and catch it before it happens' next time, they really need to. Honestly, this should never have gotten as far out of hand as it did.

[Elfie]

this should never have gotten as far out of hand as it did.

Short of already having combat troops on the ground, how does one prevent this sort of thing?

[Baitman]

Weak.

A feint to draw the enemy into the open is time tested. 

Problem with letting the taliban have any ground is that it becomes propaganda against us. They will tell others that they have won victory and they are pushing us back. Just today 10 French soldiers gave their lives for Afghanastans freedom.

[FrodeMk3]

Short of already having combat troops on the ground, how does one prevent this sort of thing?

Well...There might have been an intelligence failure. However, we knew the soviets' had a Motor-rifle division in the area. IMO, since we had some trainers there anyway, we probably should have tried to sneak in a Regimental-sized unit of our own to help "train" a month or two ago. That mighta helped stymie the Russians' in any kind of incursion, or at least kept them on their side of the border (for fear of engaging U.S. troops directly.)

[Elfie]

Well...There might have been an intelligence failure. However, we knew the soviets' had a Motor-rifle division in the area. IMO, since we had some trainers there anyway, we probably should have tried to sneak in a Regimental-sized unit of our own to help "train" a month or two ago. That mighta helped stymie the Russians' in any kind of incursion, or at least kept them on their side of the border (for fear of engaging U.S. troops directly.)

Putting an armored brigade in country just might have done the trick. Of course, Russia would have been screaming bloody murder over us putting a brigade in their back yard.

[Baitman]

Putting an armored brigade in country just might have done the trick. Of course, Russia would have been screaming bloody murder over us putting a brigade in their back yard.

I  sure that the most Americans would feel the same as if Russia wanted to put a large number of troops in say.... Cuba

[Elfie]

I  sure that the most Americans would feel the same as if Russia wanted to put a large number of troops in say.... Cuba

Except.....troops from Cuba can't just walk to Florida. 

[RTR]

HEY BTW! you old SOD!

When are you coming back to terrorize me with that Dora?

I miss ya Bro!

(man, you gave me nightmares in AW LOL)

RTR

[-tronski-]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it take about 3 weeks after the post-election riots started to get ~3000 UN Peacekeepers into Timor?

That would seem to reinforce the idea that the Russians had been planning this for quite a while. You don't alert, equip and move 10K troops in a day. Then there's that pesky fig leaf of handing out the passports.

About 3 weeks is right, with the Indonesians relenting after 8 days, and the UN SC resolution 11 days after independance but the main force was landing within 5 days of the UN SC resolution, with SAS and commandos within 3 days (there were credible reports that Australian/NZ SAS troops were operating before the UN SC resolution). Australian and New Zealand battalions were preparing for operations just after trouble started (after the declaration of independance), so your assertion that the Russians had been planning this for sometime is probably highly accurate.

 Tronsky

[Toad]

so your assertion that the Russians had been planning this for sometime is probably highly accurate.

 Tronsky

Thank you. That's the point.

All the Russian BS from Boroda and all the Russian support from the blinded Euros seems to conveniently ignore that point.

I believe it is highly likely that this was planned long in advance and the SO "separatist" inititated sniper battles of 1 Aug that escalated into Georgian intervention on 8 August were part of that plan. Just like the passports.

[Elfie]

All the Russian BS from Boroda and all the Russian support from the blinded Euros seems to conveniently ignore that point.

Indeed, they aren't looking at the whole picture, they are only looking at the intervention by Georgia. To analyze a situation you need to look at all of the information leading up to the situation being looked at.

I believe it is highly likely that this was planned long in advance and the SO "separatist" inititated sniper battles of 1 Aug that escalated into Georgian intervention on 8 August were part of that plan. Just like the passports.

I'm in agreement with that based on everything we know right now.