What should be done about Russias occupation of Georgia?

[-tronski-]

Refresh my memory. When was the last time (before this Russian anomaly) a UN peacekeeping force jumped off immediately and took the combat to the enemy?

East Timor

#3 Turkey has always played both sides, do you think they'll do any different now? More so now that they see how how Georgia was abandoned to an aggressor.

Turkey always does whats best for Turkey - and they also have a Kurdish independance problem which they routinely do their best in suppressing, so they would hardly like the idea of breakaway areas being given help from outside powers. Turkey will play ball because its in their best interests to do so.

 Tronsky

[Excel1]

kick out some of the slackers from nato and invite the russians into it..problem solved.

the writing has been on the wall for a while now; re-afghanistan and the reluctance of some euro nato members pre- invasion to accept georgia into nato for fear of provoking putin- nato with the exception of the efforts of a few member states has become an impotent overblown outfit reminiscent of the un, and putin has just rammed that home in georgia.

[Toad]

East Timor

 Tronsky

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it take about 3 weeks after the post-election riots started to get ~3000 UN Peacekeepers into Timor?

That would seem to reinforce the idea that the Russians had been planning this for quite a while. You don't alert, equip and move 10K troops in a day. Then there's that pesky fig leaf of handing out the passports.

[Dowding]

It would seem there is a huge split within NATO given the weak response they have just released following their emergency summit.

"Not business as usual with Russia."
"No specific cooperative programs have been axed."

Sounds like no common ground could be found within NATO itself.

[PanosGR]

Turkey will never allow the possibility to come in a direct confrontation with Russia. Such a possibility is against its own diplomatic and geopolitical doctrine. Ankara has always played a twofold game for eg in WWII.
At the same time many Europeans have a very different aspect on the Georgia issue. First the Georgians attack in South Osetia, and then the Russians retaliate. I think that was exactly the case in Kosovo or am I wrong? The 700.000 osetians which btw are an ancient tribe derives from Scythes having nothing in common with Georgians or Russians. They want to unite Notrh Osetia and South Osetia under a certain independence level, from Georgia. Just like Albanians in Kosovo.
I think this is their own privilege.

Btw smb stop this guy who start the attack in South Osetia and killed about 2000 Osetian civilians from give any more interviews. Smb tell him the benefits of silence.

[Dowding]

Btw smb stop this guy who start the attack in South Osetia and killed about 2000 Osetian civilians from give any more interviews. Smb tell him the benefits of silence.

Prove the 2000 deaths. Russia is preventing the Red Cross from getting into South Ossetia. There is no independent corroboration.

BTW, the population of South Ossetia is only 70,000.

[PanosGR]

I don’t feel the need to prove any. Tskhinvali is a devastated city in case you don’t know it. That alone is enough for me. I’m talking about the whole Osetian population which is about 700.000 people, of which 100.000 resides in South Osetia.

[Dowding]

I don’t feel the need to prove any. Tskhinvali is a devastated city in case you don’t know it.

You may not feel a need to provide proof, but in its absence, your point is baseless speculation.

How do you know Tskhinvali is a 'devastated city'? You claim 2000 dead. Those killed in these things are usually the tip of an ice-burg - I'd expect 10,000 injured, maybe 3000 severely if 2000 were dead. It might be useful in such circumstances to let the Red Cross or other independent NGOs in to help.

And would you believe it... Russia bars the Red Cross from entering South Ossetia.

Something smells fishy.

Meanwhile, the only independent information to emerge from South Ossetia shows only 44 deaths at the main hospital in Tskhinvali.

[Toad]

Dammit, Dowding... it is absolutely CRUEL the way you torture these guys.

Facts? The facts are what they say they are. Just ask Boroda.

They are so delusional that they'd be funny except that their delusions have killed millions.

They way they lie to themselves over Katyn pretty well says it all.

[Speed55]

And would you believe it... Russia bars the Red Cross from entering South Ossetia.

Something smells fishy.

I also saw on fox news yesterday that the russian military had blocked the east/west road deep in georgian territory.  As reporters were making there way down the road, the russian soldiers demanded russian press papers.   The reporter said he left, but wanted to say, this is the country of georgia.

[PanosGR]

You may not feel a need to provide proof, but in its absence, your point is baseless speculation.

How do you know Tskhinvali is a 'devastated city'? You claim 2000 dead. Those killed in these things are usually the tip of an ice-burg - I'd expect 10,000 injured, maybe 3000 severely if 2000 were dead. It might be useful in such circumstances to let the Red Cross or other independent NGOs in to help.

And would you believe it... Russia bars the Red Cross from entering South Ossetia.

Something smells fishy.

Meanwhile, the only independent information to emerge from South Ossetia shows only 44 deaths at the main hospital in Tskhinvali.

How do I know Tskhinvali is a 'devastated city'? I saw it on the news in a Greek TV channel (that’s where im from btw) from a correspondent there. Secondly a friend of mine who she is Osetian (her parents live in North Osetia) and work in Athens she told me about it. She told me also that they don’t want Georgian rule and I think that is their own right. Like I said is just like the Albanians issue in Kosovo the ones that you supported and bombed Serbia for. Why now u deny the will of the Osetian people for self-determination while their rights are violated by paramilitary Georgian forces? Trust me and you will find more independed info about civil casualties in the process. Just be patient.

[Dowding]

Oh, I'll be patient PanosGR. But how long shall I wait? A week, a month, a year?

Given there were 2000 people dead in Tskhinvali, just where are the pictures on Russian TV of all the injured that would go with them? Where are the pictures of overwhelmed hospitals with wounded lying in the street? The whole of South Ossetia has the infrastructure to support 100,000 people. Let's say 50,000 live in Tskhinvali. That's a small town where I live - bloody hell, my home town without a dedicated hospital has 60,000 people resident. The emergency services of South Ossetia would be overwhelmed.

Either the Russian media is slow at making the most of what sounds like a 'picture postcard massacre'... or there was no massacre.

If 2000 people had died on 7 August, and the proof was televised the world over - the reaction from everyone would have been horror and disgust. Ironically, it would have been like the market-day massacre in Bosnia back in 1992ish - when Serbian artillery killed 60 people doing their shopping. NATO stepped in and made sure those artillery pieces never fired again.

Instead, we have this amateurish game of smoke and mirrors perpetrated by a Russian leadership hell bent on some kind of territorial gain.

Yes, I'll wait PanosGR. The international community will wait. Meanwhile, a piece of Eastern Europe looks like it will be assimilated by the Russians.

[FrodeMk3]

How do I know Tskhinvali is a 'devastated city'? I saw it on the news in a Greek TV channel (that’s where im from btw) from a correspondent there. Secondly a friend of mine who she is Osetian (her parents live in North Osetia) and work in Athens she told me about it. She told me also that they don’t want Georgian rule and I think that is their own right. Like I said is just like the Albanians issue in Kosovo the ones that you supported and bombed Serbia for. Why now u deny the will of the Osetian people for self-determination while their rights are violated by paramilitary Georgian forces? Trust me and you will find more independed info about civil casualties in the process. Just be patient.

Panoz...Just look at U.S. news' photos of Tskhinvali. You see a few destroyed buildings, but that city is nowhere near destroyed. If you want destroyed, Google Grozny.

[WWhiskey]

first day reports showed 2000 dead in south ossieta, mostly Russian civilians i remember reading it on some wire and hearing it on a radio broadcast,,, in Texas!
most of the death's were caused by the Russians is what the report said.
 probably why they are not reporting it any more, i havent heard a word about it since that first day.
 funny thing i have noticed over the years following stuff like this, is that first reports that don't ever get anymore play are usually correct, if someone is trying too hide those! the us would not want that info released, without proof that the Russians were responsible,, the Russians would not want that info too get out, because then they might be found to be responsible, without a way to blame the Georgians the Russians will not tell anyone! an easy way to lay blame would be too go on Greek TV with the story, this gives all sides time to hide or re interpret what really happened without anyone being able to find out the true facts of the matter, then it all gets lost or tied up in some committee at the U.N. until we all just forget about it!

[BlauK]

Maybe "the world" should kick both the Russians and Georgians out of the 2008 Olympic Games and cancel their medals.... for breaking the Olympic Truce.

"Every four years, for sixteen days, all warring sides compete peacefully side by side.

Every four years, for sixteen days, people remember that there are some ideals which allow them to set down their weapons and compete on equal terms for an olive wreath and for the honor of participating in a sport."

.. but nah, that would be too harsh, right?