Author Topic: So, republicans don't like ...  (Read 1831 times)

Offline texasmom

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2008, 06:32:00 PM »
Do you teach?  If you did, you would completely understand why it is NCLB.  Before NCLB, we taught kids with the intention of teaching them how to learn, now, many are forced to teach for standardized test scores.   Money is the all central issue for every school now, and test scores(at all costs) along with attendance(at all costs) are the money winners.  Everything changed and not all for the better.   :aok

Seen that in play ~ the money portion of it.  You're right. It's not a pretty sight.
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Offline Cthulhu

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2008, 06:33:49 PM »
Do you teach?  If you did, you would completely understand why it is NCLB.  Before NCLB, we taught kids with the intention of teaching them how to learn, now, many are forced to teach for standardized test scores.   Money is the all central issue for every school now, and test scores(at all costs) along with attendance(at all costs) are the money winners.  Everything changed and not all for the better.   :aok
SkyRock's right. It's all about the $Green$ with public schools now. I believe what he's saying about test scores and attendance also applies to school lunch programs, with federal subsidies indexed to how many kids a school can sign-up for the program.

SkyRock, is private school an option? I pay a sh*tload in school taxes (educating tomorrow's felons :mad:) , but my daughter is in private school.
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Offline Donzo

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2008, 06:53:08 PM »
Do you teach?  If you did, you would completely understand why it is NCLB.  Before NCLB, we taught kids with the intention of teaching them how to learn, now, many are forced to teach for standardized test scores.   Money is the all central issue for every school now, and test scores(at all costs) along with attendance(at all costs) are the money winners.  Everything changed and not all for the better.   :aok

Before NCLB, what determined who got how much money?

Offline Sonicblu

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2008, 07:11:20 PM »
Do you teach?  If you did, you would completely understand why it is NCLB.  Before NCLB, we taught kids with the intention of teaching them how to learn, now, many are forced to teach for standardized test scores.   Money is the all central issue for every school now, and test scores(at all costs) along with attendance(at all costs) are the money winners.  Everything changed and not all for the better.   :aok

NCLB are federal guidelines. The state had to overreact and adopt dumb legislation to meet those guidelines.

NCLB is a dumb idea by itself. YOU guys need to use your brains and look past the content to the context.
YOU are the ones with the power. You lost that when you gave you kiddos over to a state school. "Follow the money, corruption, the GOP," are only rabbit trails, you cant fix bent. We need to start over. Unless you can get a good Private school. Check out home schooling. We have way more options than ever before. The more the State or Fed runs it you will be left with fewer choices

To answer the original question directly of course it is a Republican NCLB screw up that leaves the state fewer choices because they have to comply with generalizations. It in turn leaves the parent with NO choices.

Offline SkyRock

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2008, 09:23:35 PM »
to school lunch programs, with federal subsidies indexed to how many kids a school can sign-up for the program.


Title1, and yes its a big fish, unfortunately its a beached whale.  I teach at a Title1 school under a very hard working, multiple doctorate, female.   She believes in educating all the children and therefore, holds hope for the goals of NCLB, just as I do.  She can't voice her disdain for NCLB and since it's about money, many feel that maybe just being quiet and hopeful is the bast way.  It's like the Mafia took over or something.   

You would not believe how the quality of food has dropped.  Quality control on how food is prepared, amount of servings, and lack of seasonings due to FDA pressures are just mind boggling.  Butter is outlawed, salt is unavailable, and mayonaise is "light" only(if you want to call that mayonaise).  At my school, all kids eat free or reduced by 60%, all of them.  Free breakfast for all children in the morning.   The only thing I like at my school is the broccli and cheese because they use real cheese.  Anyway, I am rambling, sorry.

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Offline Donzo

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2008, 10:21:42 PM »
You would not believe how the quality of food has dropped.  Quality control on how food is prepared, amount of servings, and lack of seasonings due to FDA pressures are just mind boggling.  Butter is outlawed, salt is unavailable, and mayonaise is "light" only(if you want to call that mayonaise).  At my school, all kids eat free or reduced by 60%, all of them.  Free breakfast for all children in the morning.   

This, my friends, is what national health care will look like.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2008, 11:45:19 PM »
you don't have to get permission to take her to the dentist, you have to get permission to take her out of school.

heh, When it comes to my kids I do not seek anyones permission for anything.
Nor will I.
I'll tell them why I am taking the kid out out of courtesy.
But Im not asking their permission.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2008, 11:56:29 PM »
ok..  so I guess if I found out that the principal had the right to refuse to allow me to take my daughter out of school... then I would be ticked.  it would be a bad law.

I can see a number of reasons why they would want prior approval..  none of which would mean that they had the right to refuse approval.. only that they wanted to know in advance so that they could do whatever paperwork or checking out the legitimacy of the "parent" was needed.

I would also say that if I forgot to get approval and I went their and showed ID and they refused to let my daughter out.. there would be trouble.

In that case.. if there is no mechanism for getting your own kid out of school..  after proving who you are... then the law is wrong.

It does seem odd that a republican would come up with this one since almost all rules that give the schools power over parents are made by democrats tho.

lazs

I think you may have misworded your statement. "Prior notice" would be more appropriate.

If a School "requests" (not to be mistaken for "demands") Prior notification so they can do paperwork or alter a scheduled meeting with a teacher etc. then Im down with that. I typically will send in a note anyway out of courtesy letting them know my daughter will be leaving school at XXX time for whatever reason. But I do it out of  courtesy.

Now if they started demanding...Well then now they are picking a fight. LOL
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2008, 12:01:34 AM »
But what about shamus jr's homework for that day? Wow guess what? He's going to be a day behind now because you didn't let the school know in advance, you know when the teachers would have been informed and could have gotten shamus jr's work for the day he was going to be absent prepared for him so he wouldn't fall behind.

There is a LOGICAL reason they want to know in advance, and that one right there is the biggest one. How about if he had a test that day? Well he misses the test, talks to his buddies that night and gets the answers, and cheats on the makeup, IF the teacher allows him a make up test. BUT if the teacher knows in advance they can make a seperate test for shamus jr. or maybe have him take it a day early, whatever. It provides the school needed time to ensure your child doesn't fall behind, and if shamus jr does fall behind who are you going to blame? Not yourself, your going to blame the school for your own screwup that could have easily been prevented by picking up the phone a day or two in advance.

By you picking up the phone the day shamus jr isn't going to be there and having the attitude of "that should be the end of it" you have in FACT caused a bunch of other people a bunch of problems of having to figure out how to keep little shamus jr on track and up to spead with everyone else in his class. Doing what you suggest actually hurts your kids own education and YOU are defeating the entire purpose of sending your child to school.

Bet you never thought of it that way huh?

No no. I've been through this.
the school (at least our school system) will typically fill you in on what assignments were handed out for the day.
the kids can also get them from their friends.
Or also in our case we can go online and see what the days assignments were/are and what will be due the next day for any given class.

LOL One thing I DO like about this town nd have to tip my hat to the township for is our school system.
It is really well done.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2008, 12:56:45 AM »
mojava.. where did I say that a parent couldn't/shouldn't take his kid out for any reason he wanted?


I hate public schools and taxes but... us.. each and everyone of us is paying for the little twit to go.   The reason being, presumably,  that he will get a good education and be an asset and worth all the damn money that us.. not you.. not the parent.. all of us.. are spending on him.. it is our money not the parents.

If you want the state to be your mommy then quit acting all upset when it treats you like it is...  your mommy.

VOUCHERS.  HOME SCHOOLING.    PAY FOR IT YOURSELF YA LEECH.

Those are the options or.. play by whatever nanny rules come down the pike that the people who are paying your bills for you decide you should play by.

Laz If you live in an area with a crappy school system I understand your complaints.
In my case. Our schools are really top notch. Over 80% of our graduates go onto a 4 year college.
The rest...well. You can provide a good school system but you cant make the kids or the parents care about learning.
I have zero complaints or reservations about the education my kids have gotten.And my daughter is still getting.
almost makes it worth the property taxes Im paying
As is well known my son is currently attending Rutgers. The year he entered his freshman year Rutgers in its entirety only accepted the top 6% of the graduating classes . My son had his choice of which campus he wanted to attend. He chose the main campus. Which typically only the best of the best get to go to

But I understand the complaints you have. Having been brought up in a town that had/s a crappy school system.
Maybe it works differently in California. but if you were here in NJ. Your real complaints shouldnt be over Government funded schools but rather how your township handles that funding. In alot of areas where the school system isnt that great. Alot of funding never reaches the classrooms where it needs to be.
 I'f you look around you will find some townships have great schools and others have crappy ones dispite the fact that some of the crappy ones (often in urban areas) may actually receive more funding then the great schools.
Its not just the funding they receive you should have a gripe with.
But what the various townships and school districts do with that funding

Publicly funded schools is no new thing in this country. Or on this continent for that matter.
examples

The first publicly funded school in America dates back to the 1600's

"Boston Latin School  in Boston, Mass. is the oldest public school in America. It was founded April 23, 1635.

It was started by Rev. John Cotton who wanted to create a school modeled after the Free Grammar School in Boston, England, in which Latin and Greek were taught. The school was publicly funded and the first classes were held in the home of Philemon Pormort, the school's master.

Believe it or not five of the 56 signers of the U.S. Constitution attended Boston Latin: John Hancock, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Robert Treat Paine, and William Hooper."  http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/oldest-school-america.html

The Pennsylvania state constitution of 1776 provides for a publicly funded school system and again in 1790 specifically states
"ARTICLE VII of Public Schools. Section 1
The Legislation shall,as soon as conveniently may be,by law,for the establishment of schools throughout the state,in such manner that the poor may be taught gratus"
http://www.parss.org/school_funding/History%20of%20School%20Funding%202003_02122004.pdf

In looking around it seems most states had public schools in one form or another even before their admission to statehood.

Again your argument shouldnt be with the funding of public schools.
But rather how that funding is administered.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2008, 09:04:50 AM »
dred.. it doesn't matter if the public school is crappy or good or excellent...

You are not getting the point..

If you allow everyone else to pay for your child to go to school then you have little or no say in what they teach him or what the rules are... 

I pay for my grand daughter so that I have individual rights.. it is not republicans who are in lock step with the teachers union and public school and the nanny state.. it is the democrats.

IF YOU PUT YOUR CHILD IN PUBLIC SCHOOL YOU DESERVE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO.. it is that simple.. you are not paying for your child... others are paying and they make the rules.

It is the same with any government program.. if we have national health then you will be told what to eat and what health programs to be on becuase.. you are being supported by the public..

The public is educating your kid at their expense to get a specific benifiet (right or wrong) out of it..  you signed up for all that crap when you turned the poor little mush head over to the state comrade.

If the little twit doesn't go to school... x.. amount of days... the state has determined that we are not getting our moneys worth out of the investment (right or wrong)  sooooo you, as a parent, are cheating the rest of us by taking the little mush head out for no good reason.

YOU HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS AND DESERVE WHATEVER HAPPENS.

lazs

Offline Yeager

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2008, 10:17:56 AM »

YOU HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHTS AND DESERVE WHATEVER HAPPENS.

cant argue with that.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2008, 10:22:11 AM »
See what happens when you allow the "teacher's union" run the education system? They ran it right into the ground, and now it is such a train wreck that it is nearly beyond repair.

When I started school the school year was 164 days. We started school the day after Labor Day, and got out the week before Memorial Day. We now have a school year that exceeds 180 days, they start the first week of August and get out the first week of June. And they learn 1/2 as much. They come out more poorly educated and more unprepared, and every year is worse. We have "teachers" who want to teach children "self esteem" and more feel good drivel. These "educators" choose the most piss poor curriculum I have ever seen in my life. My daughter graduated in 2005 from high school. I THOUGHT her books and the curriculum were as bad as I could possibly expect. HAH, my son is in the 8th grade. It got worse. I've never seen so much dumbed down irrelevant CRAP in my life. It's no wonder intelligent children are bored and disinterested in school. They have no interest in getting dumber.

There is no discipline and no education in the public education system any more. It's a travesty and a joke.
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Offline john9001

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2008, 11:18:47 AM »
skyrock, if you are going to miss a day at work do you call work and tell them or just not show up ?

Offline Denholm

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Re: So, republicans don't like ...
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2008, 11:53:42 AM »
Either way it gets deducted from your sick days. :D
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