HiTech no likes ponys?

[BnZ]

190 A-5 @75% w/ 4x20MM=8,571 lbs.

Wing area=196.99 square feet

8,571/196.99=43.5 lbs/square foot.

8,571/1,677hp=5.11 lbs/horsepower

Urchin: Sounds very reasonable to me for 190 A-5s to be nearly matching Jugs in no-flaps radius, at low altitude Sir. 

The only thing that has never made sense to me is the way relative performance changes over the years.  The F4U didn't used to be a superplane.  The 190A-5 used to be able to turn with a P-47 (or just about, at any rate). 
 

[Anaxogoras]

IIRC, thrust/drag is more important for calculating turn rate than lbs/hp.

[BnZ]

IIRC, thrust/drag is more important for calculating turn rate than lbs/hp.

Well, yes, really, its the thrust from the engine vs. all that induced drag at a high AoA that is important in turning, but there is a crude correlation between that and weight/hp, and weight/hp is easier to calculate. 

[Tr1gg22]

Well I have flown the pony a lot in the past 2 and a half fun years. I really don't think the plane turns bad its not the best by no means I don't understand were the tempest typhy out turns the pony..If it does it does not make enough of a difference to me, or even the jug. yes there are a few Folks that fly these ac that can woop me in them I no that, but  Ill bloody there noses Once again it boils down to the pilot IMHO. I really do not see the pony turning that bad though. That first high speed deflection is a killer. If a guy flys it the way it was designed to be flown it does what its suppose to do The plane is not made to get low and slow with the zekes  las spittys so on so forth..I will do it for fun because this is just a game and it does pretty good for what it was actually designed for Jugs temps typhs lala's 190s are on my to turn with list.So I really do not believe its that bad of a turner   I do not fly the bad boy much anymore moved on to hogs , but I always enjoy taking her up when the situation calls for it...

[Chalenge]

A long long time ago I got interested in what different airfoils made on airplanes and talked to a few people that should have a great idea what the different airfoils would do on various designs. What got me interested was the difference between the wing on a P47 and a P51 but the one man that really got into the discussion (a fellow r/c club member and engineering professor at FSU - I can see his face but his name wont come to me) told me it would be better for me to look at the F4U. His reasoning was that both aircraft had very different airfoils and the F4U used a different approach to reducing drag which was the major problem in prop designs. He pointed me in the direction of something called 'drag divergence' which unfortunately I never followed up on because at the time I just wanted to build a fast airplane. Maybe someone here can describe why the P51 by legend at least performed so much better at high altitude because of this factor despite having less horsepower? I dont think I will get to the answer myself without involving a few thousand dollars in books on the subject of aerodynamic design and his suggestion might be a blind alley anyway...

[Steve]

Well I have flown the pony a lot in the past 2 and a half fun years. I really don't think the plane turns bad its not the best by no means I don't understand were the tempest typhy out turns the pony..If it does it does not make enough of a difference to me, or even the jug. yes there are a few Folks that fly these ac that can woop me in them I no that, but  Ill bloody there noses Once again it boils down to the pilot IMHO. I really do not see the pony turning that bad though. That first high speed deflection is a killer. If a guy flys it the way it was designed to be flown it does what its suppose to do The plane is not made to get low and slow with the zekes  las spittys so on so forth..I will do it for fun because this is just a game and it does pretty good for what it was actually designed for Jugs temps typhs lala's 190s are on my to turn with list.So I really do not believe its that bad of a turner   I do not fly the bad boy much anymore moved on to hogs , but I always enjoy taking her up when the situation calls for it...

Tiffy and temp out turn pony. Not as dramatically as a zeke... but they do.

[BaldEagl]

190 A-5 @75% w/ 4x20MM=8,571 lbs.

Wing area=196.99 square feet

8,571/196.99=43.5 lbs/square foot.

8,571/1,677hp=5.11 lbs/horsepower

Urchin: Sounds very reasonable to me for 190 A-5s to be nearly matching Jugs in no-flaps radius, at low altitude Sir. 

I think there might be more to aerodynamics than simple wingloading and HP/weight ratios such as the lift produced by the wing shape, drag produced by the airframe and prop configuration among others.

Calculations such as above might give indications but not nessesarily the final answer.  Test and flight data are the only reliable sources in comparing real-world vs game performance.

[Anaxogoras]

Maybe someone here can describe why the P51 by legend at least performed so much better at high altitude because of this factor despite having less horsepower?

First, you fail to specify what you're comparing the P-51 to when you say it performed better at high altitude.

Second, since we've been talking about the P-47 a lot, the P-51 was not better "at altitude."  In the ETO typical altitudes were 30k feet and higher, and at those altitudes the P-47 was faster and, iirc, climbed better.  It also rolled better and dove better.  The P-51 was a flying gas tank.  Therein lies its greatness.  Its great speed with less horsepower was just another expression of the same motivating principle of efficiency.

[Anaxogoras]

If a guy flys it the way it was designed to be flown it does what its suppose to do The plane is not made to get low and slow with the zekes  las spittys so on so forth..I will do it for fun because this is just a game and it does pretty good for what it was actually designed for Jugs temps typhs lala's 190s are on my to turn with list.

Tiffy and temp out turn pony. Not as dramatically as a zeke... but they do.

Zazen has convincingly argued, on many occasions, that when aircraft have similar speed, stall fighting becomes more and more profitable.  This is because neither aircraft has the initiative, i.e. speed, to dictate the terms of the fight, and therefore must go defensive.  That's why it's normal and correct for a P-51 to ride the edge of a stall in a fight with a 190D-9 much more so than it's correct against an A6M.

[Tr1gg22]

Tiffy and temp out turn pony. Not as dramatically as a zeke... but they do.

   Maybe but not with me

[kudzu31]

With all due respect to most of those of have commented on the Pony--with nothing in real life to compare it to, I believe the Pony to be the best all-around FIGHTER in the game. Speed, visibility, hi speed turn and get away time requires pushing the nose down. This, of course, is IF you started the engagement on your term's altitude and hopefully in super cruise--and not being afraid to egress BACK to that altitude when you opponent begins to get upper hand. Some may call it it BnZ queen, undermodelled, whatever...but I have landed more kills in it than any other platform despite the Jug being my second favorite ride. Its the pilot, not the plane and the plane is fine IMHO.

If I can land 'em...anyone can. Know your ride...know your opponent and like I said. Know when to run. It brought 'em home in WWII and will do the same if you know when to book.

No new news here...just giving my opinion.

<<S>>

Kudzu31

[Scotch]

Most of you are missing the point.

[Steve]

   Maybe but not with me

Riiiight,, you are the king of all pony pilots.  You don't have to like it, but the tiff and tempy out turn the pony.  The data is irrefutable. I made no mention of a difference in pilot skill.

[Anaxogoras]

...and skyrock can outturn Spit16s with a 190D-9.

[Bucky73]

It's a game....








Who gives a S$%t