The MA Mentality...

[CAP1]

You got to my alt... I just wouldn't let ya get any smash.   I also had to kill that zeke 1st. You did well considering the circumstances. The best option you could have done was drag down and force the overshoot.  And that dragging through the ack was not nice. You know how long it take to patch them holes?

yep..only that one time though....and i wasn't amle to get up to speed though.,...till i dove again. i was hoping you'd be distracted with that zeke long enough to let me get some speed, and maybe a bit of an angle, although i was warning him also that it "was someone that knows their stuff". 
 i didn't know what else to do when i dragged ya through the ack. it was a last resort, although i did it to stang too....i kind of hope you'll turn off, and at the same time i might be able to get a bit of alt or come back at ya as you're turning around it. but on the other hand, you only had a few holes to patch. i lost a whole cartoon airplane. my cartoon crew chief wanted to kick my cartoon arse. 
 i must commend you and stang both on your gunnery with the p39, as i know i can't hit dirt with the dam thing, and have heard others say it's hard too.
 also....thanks for the kind words....you guys, the headhunters, etc., are the kinds of guys that'll come in here, and help us all improve, although, personally, i still think i flew like a noob against both of yas.

<<S>>

[Bosco123]

How did i get dragged into this? 

oops.  wrong person. Like I said, I don't know, and from what I know, he came to me on the deck, anything before that is what I won't know.

[BnZs]

If you think about it, top speed for many planes is well above corner speed.

So you can have a situation where if A merges at something resembling normal cruising speed and B deliberately dumps some E to get a tight turn on the merge, then B will gain angles on the first turn. This tactic is kind of "artificial" in and of itself IMO, it could almost be considered taking advantage of some tacit assumption that the opposition will simply try to corner as quickly as possible on the merge.

The logical thing to do against this E sacrifice gambit if you recognize it is to switch to positive E tactics. No cheating involved there.

If the opposition is playing fair and didn't bust alt cap, you should be able to get just as much E as him on the merge, and he won't be able to rope you. If he isn't playing fair, find someone else to play with, griefers aren't worth dealing with.

Trust me B, alot of us know what you're talking about. We are on your side for what you are standing for (fair equal fights).
 The one thing that doesnt fit is we dont know if huckster cheated or if you just got sucked into a fight you were not expecting. When you say 'straight up fight' I have a hard time understanding how you define that as strictly 'TnB' from the merge and nothing else. There is absolutely no definition that says a duel must be angles only, that is a fallacy produced from exactly this scenario, someone being beat when they didnt expect it in a manner they didnt expect.
 I have done this, called out the 'E hoard dueler type' and ranted and raved knowing that my overall ACM knoledge far surpasses them. Then one day i realised.... if it does, why am i losing and why am i getting pissed off?

[Steve]

If you think about it, top speed for many planes is well above corner speed.

So you can have a situation where if A merges at something resembling normal cruising speed and B deliberately dumps some E to get a tight turn on the merge, then B will gain angles on the first turn. This tactic is kind of "artificial" in and of itself IMO, it could almost be considered taking advantage of some tacit assumption that the opposition will simply try to corner as quickly as possible on the merge.

The logical thing to do against this E sacrifice gambit if you recognize it is to switch to positive E tactics. No cheating involved there.

If the opposition is playing fair and didn't bust alt cap, you should be able to get just as much E as him on the merge, and he won't be able to rope you. If he isn't playing fair, find someone else to play with, griefers aren't worth dealing with.

IMHO, fighting "Up" in a duel is rather cheesy but this is based on the assumption that your opponent is honorable. If you're both full throttle full E at merge then it's a dog fight, IMHO. If the guy chops throttle so he can get around on his first loop/chandelle faster than you I think it's completely reasonable to counter with a vert move.  So many varaibles.

In the MA I try to fight "up", at least some,  if I can.  With multiple cons I feel it only makes sense that you try to bank some E to counter their approaches. There's nothing wrong with getting in the weeds and yanking it around... heck that's a blast! My only beef is that the guys who willingly put themselves there have no business crying that somebody swooped them.  It's a furball with a host of differing E-states. *shrug*

[pervert]

Huckster is a good stick, a good bloke and knows his stuff.

[mechanic]

^that was the impression i got from the duels we had. If Mr P says it then its good by me.

[Shuffler]

i was like that the other day on a rare occasion i could play.
 Had Storch and VWE in MidWar attacking our base and i just went at them like a tool blazing away. They roped and tag teamed my mossy multiple times in their 190 and mossy. (actualy some decent winging tactics) After being shot down by stoch 5 times and and VWE about the same i finally shot off VW's tail. Storch however eluded me the whole night and not only did i miss the easiest 600 yrd shot on him but i let myself get roped like a 2 weeker more than once.

My only experience with VWE is he HOs.... it'd his only move.

[Ack-Ack]

My only experience with VWE is he HOs.... it'd his only move.

My only experience with storch is that he sure likes to whine a lot when you kick his arse repeatedly.  As for VWE, I hardly consider him to be worthy of any challenge and he's more apt to run away and talk crap on open channel than he is to fight. 


ack-ack

[mechanic]

in my exprience of actualy fighting people in the game (not the forum) both storch and VW have shown some good flying and proved a good wingman in the Axis vs Allies arena. [shrug]
Yeah JG54 act up as a bunch of skilless self loving griefers intentionaly to piss you guys off, but really there is not one member that i would say cannot put up a good fight.

[Ack-Ack]

in my exprience of actualy fighting people in the game (not the forum) both storch and VW have shown some good flying and proved a good wingman in the Axis vs Allies arena. [shrug]
Yeah JG54 act up as a bunch of skilless self loving griefers intentionaly to piss you guys off, but really there is not one member that i would say cannot put up a good fight.

You should hop into the MW arena sometime and you'll see first hand the 'level' of fighting these two bring to the table.  The only 'fighting' storch does with any regularity is the constant crap talk towards other players when he gets shot down, same with VWE.  It's gotten to the point that it's really not worth the time to fight these guys because for the 1 minute fight they put up, they whine on open channel for 10 minutes.  YMMV.


ack-ack

[mechanic]

infact my original post regarding storch and VW did mention that it was in the MW arena.
If you understand two things about jg54, one being that they laugh like drains about winding people up(no one cared about other squads like this), two being that they dont give a crap about anyone but jg54, then you migh be able to get along with them better. But then clearly you might not want to..its all the same to me. I try to get along with as many types of person as i can handle, why blacken my own fun by caring that everyone sees life differently?

edit: when i shot VW down he just said 'arg you got me tail'. maybe you should look at your own attitude towards certain people to understand why they behave in a certain manner to you?

Infact shuffler was there too complaining about the cherry pickers and hotards, so maybe thats why storch and VW enjoyed themself so much BnZ us?

again, it doesnt matter to me if you dont get along with them. just feeling talkative lately so airing my mind.
S!

[Shuffler]

infact my original post regarding storch and VW did mention that it was in the MW arena.
If you understand two things about jg54, one being that they laugh like drains about winding people up(no one cared about other squads like this), two being that they dont give a crap about anyone but jg54, then you migh be able to get along with them better. But then clearly you might not want to..its all the same to me. I try to get along with as many types of person as i can handle, why blacken my own fun by caring that everyone sees life differently?

edit: when i shot VW down he just said 'arg you got me tail'. maybe you should look at your own attitude towards certain people to understand why they behave in a certain manner to you?

Infact shuffler was there too complaining about the cherry pickers and hotards, so maybe thats why storch and VW enjoyed themself so much BnZ us?

again, it doesnt matter to me if you dont get along with them. just feeling talkative lately so airing my mind.
S!

Never worry about the pickers.... all they are doing is clearing someone's tail. The Hotards as you call them are another thing all together. When you can fight but chose to just Ho your just telling the other fella that you feel he is way better than you are. I have no respect for someone who HOs simply because any 5 year old can do the same. In a game why not try your best to win a fight... worst that can happen is you get a new plane and some experience under your belt. Only time I see a Ho as acceptable is if your single against 3 or more. BTW VWE is muted .... my guess is he was being friendly to folks verbally mechanic.

Oh and mechanic I don't get tweaked..... I just feel sorry for the little fellas. 

[mechanic]

rgr that shuff, i couldnt agree more with your ho philosophy, its just that your complaints are like music to their ears, if you know what i mean.

VW muted eh? i bet they had a great laugh getting muted. I think storch is muted too infact, he didnt mock me once after i died to his 190

[eagl]

I got away from the rope, and dived down. From there he didn't immeditely come down for me, thus, he had a higher E state and alt. advantage. He cam down for the first shot and I reversed him, again, he went back up I just could keep doing what he was doing.

He forced you to fight his fight, and he won.  That's pretty much how it's supposed to happen.

What you needed to do was either beat him at his own game, or do something to change the situation.  One thing that can help in that situation, is to drive around underneath the other guy as fast as possible, even giving him a position at your high six while you gain airspeed.  When he commits his nose down to attack, you turn hard into him but do not pull off all of your speed.  After he misses and overshoots, you convert a bit of your speed into altitude and then go back to gaining speed/altitude.  Keep doing this until you have enough energy to force the fight into another situation or dive and run the second he overshoots.

[Bosco123]

He forced you to fight his fight, and he won.  That's pretty much how it's supposed to happen.

I knew that after I foght him. Like I said, I was expecting, in my view, a "Good Fight" and I didn't believe that that was a "Good Fight". I could have definetly fought his game, like I said, I've used his way of fighting before. If I went to another round, I woulda did just that, just do an easy E merge and break him apart when I got more E than him. But, thats not what happend.