Author Topic: Icons and Radar  (Read 290 times)

Offline Dinger

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2000, 11:37:00 AM »
   Errrr...
First, icons are always a burning issue in any game.  Second, I'm with funked on this.
What's wrong with the current system?
A. Visual identification of enemy planes occurs at way too far a range.  This encourages an unrealistic sort of cowardice and discourages sneakiness.  If you can see and ID someone from 5 miles out, just about all engagements are decisive: if you get into a fight with someone, one of you is going to walk away.  It's pretty hard to make the other guy lose you when you need at least 30 seconds to get out of icon range.  In addition, the element of surprise is greatly reduced.  Some of y'all might think this is a good thing, since it "helps the newbies", but in actuality it isn't.  A player learns how to run the view system and check six far before learning to precision the ACM necessary to win in a dogfight.  Giving someone the opportunity to score a low-six bounce is both rewarding and realistic.
B. Information on the position and numbers of enemy aircraft is way too precise.  This isn't a pay-per-play game.  My guess is that if we enabled this stuff only in the tower, we'd see b efore too long players doing at least part-time GCI. And no, it's not a simple analogue, as information radioed to pilots was more vague than the dots on our screen, and was certainly not real time.  Come on, I'm over my own base, and there are 5 enemies and 3 friends in the air.  I can glance at the map, and see not only where the enemies are, but which ones are being engaged by friendlies, which ones are harassing friendlies, which ones are threats to me, which ones are about to bomb the base, and which one just happened to sneak up on my six.  Really folks, did those GCI guys make six calls (Blue 7, bandit 50 yards your six!)?
  The sector bars themselves are excessive: We all know that each sector square indicates 1-2 A/C, and when a square shifts from one sector to another, we have a very good idea of where the plane is at exactly that moment.  Heck, the sectors (and the pixels of overlap between the "painted" and "real" sectors) have become an integral part of my flight plan, which probably should not be the case.  Further, the "ground observer" argument is a little absurd: when 1 plane taxis onto the runway at a far rear enemy base 150 miles away, we know about it immediately.
I like sector and unit info in the tower only.
Even better (a compromise would be to put this into the cockpit) would be to do something like what BOB/SWOTL had: update the map every five minutes or so.  Even better: every five minutes, update it with the info from five minutes ago (you login, you get the sector counters from the last update, the dots don't appear until the next update).  Damage to the communications infrastructure could increase the age of the data (i.e., updates reflect the situation 10 or even 20 minutes before).

C. Range within 1000 yards.  Well, having flown for a while at 800x600 (currently I'm between computers; be back next week), I'm of the opinion that you need some sort of indicator of closure up to 500 yards (how about redshift?   ).  Still, having the range down to the last yard is absurd and a ridiculous aid to gunnery.

Dinger

Offline popeye

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2000, 03:29:00 PM »
"What's wrong with the current system?"

This thread is NOT about the MA, right?

IMO icons/radar in the MA are just about right.  (The only changes I would make would be to delay sector counter updates a bit, and remove icons from ground troops.)

For the SEA or (future) HA, I'll be glad to try other icon/radar setups.

popeye
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Offline Dinger

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2000, 06:58:00 PM »
Come on, as the only person to come out in favor of the current MA icon system, it'd help to specify what you like about it, or why IYO it's superior.  Heck, even I can throw out some possibilities:

1. BVR IFF facilitates long streaks.
2. I really enjoy not having to check my six every couple seconds.
3. Bomber intercepts are a joy when you get rid of those unreliable GCI dudes.
4. Surprises are unpleasant.
5. In stern chases against planes with a higher top speed, the yard counter lets you know the precise moment to start praying: so when he starts pulling away at 847 yards, you can open up.
6. Plane sizes vary, so the range counter really helps gunnery.

:P

Offline Toad

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2000, 09:37:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger:
   
C. Range within 1000 yards.  Well, having flown for a while at 800x600 (currently I'm between computers; be back next week), I'm of the opinion that you need some sort of indicator of closure up to 500 yards (how about redshift?   ).  Still, having the range down to the last yard is absurd and a ridiculous aid to gunnery.

Dinger

I hear ya Ding!  This is exactly what's wrong (IMHO) with the icon-off events in the SEA. Planes are a dot far too long in AH and you can't tell closure on a dot. Is he coming or going? You won't know 'till it's way too late.

I do get a fairly decent plane shape at 1k on my monitor and so can begin to get a handle on closure there. But I can see where others might not.

Lots of room to experiment. I just wish we would!
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Offline popeye

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2000, 09:16:00 AM »
Okay Dinger,

IMO, the MA is not about realism, it's about fun.  So, an icon/radar system that makes it possible for the casual, infrequent, or newbie player to log on, find a fight, and have a good time is just about right.  I think the current system does that pretty well.

In my tour as trainer, I've flown with raw newbies who couldn't track or hit the most cooperative target, even with the "ridiculously easy" icon/radar sytem that we have.  I guess we could say that AH is just not the place to learn to play a multiplayer WWII sim, and that only hardcore experienced players need apply.  I don't make business decisions for HTC, but I doubt that they want to be so exclusive.

Some players think that the current system is "too easy", and it detracts from THEIR fun.  This is why I think a more challenging system would be appropriate for another arena, along with other attributes to appeal to the more hardcore player.

popeye
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Offline Tac

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Icons and Radar
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2000, 03:18:00 PM »
My only gripe with the icons is that the most important aspect of combat, SURPRISE is completely removed by those friggin billboards.

Reducing the range at which they appear will bring the element of surprise back.

How many times have you folks been able to avoid a bounce just by quick-panning around looking for those big-red-letters?

Better yet, what is the point of "realism" with such eagle-eye capacity? HTC might as well make all airplanes behave at their best at any alt just to balance this icon bull out.