Your new gun law idea

[Phaser11]

Gun laws.
 OK all this talk about gun control and banning and all that stuff. What I want to know is what laws do you think there should be. If the only idea you have is an out right ban of all firearms you can just save it.
 I want to know what laws you want passed by congress or state or local governments. Just to help out, between the US Government, state government and local government where I live in Michigan there are over 200 laws on the books that deal with firearms and firearm crimes. That’s right 200 (I got the books when I did my CCW class).

If you don’t have a law in mind, don’t respond.
If you have an idea for a law just list it, don’t give a five page dissertation on how it will help, just the law.

For you answers I’ll let you know if it in the books now or not, not whether your idea is a good one or not.

Remember, your feelings about any given gun law does not matter, only if it is allready on the books counts.

[Hornet33]

There are too many gun laws as it is. Instead of writting anouther one that no one is going to pay attention to, how about getting rid of about half of the ones we have that are so far out of date it's not even funny, and then ENFORCING the rest of them.

Bans do no good, restrictions do no good, registration does no good. A criminal commits a crime using a gun and they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, unless they kill someone, even though there are ALREADY laws on the books that allow judges to sentance them to some serious time. If THOSE laws and penalties were enforced that might make a differance.

BUT for the sake of this thread I'll play along. If I could add one law to the books concerning guns. I would get rid of State concealed carry permits and replace them with a Federal concealed carry permit. $50 cost for a 5 year permit to carry anywhere in the United States and it's territories. Requirements for the permit would be to pass a Federal background check, proof of firearms training (either pay to take a civilian class such as a hunter safety course or the like, proof of military firearms training, or law enforcement training) and a valid state issued or federal issued photo ID (drivers liscense, military ID, ect.).

[CAP1]

Gun laws.
 OK all this talk about gun control and banning and all that stuff. What I want to know is what laws do you think there should be. If the only idea you have is an out right ban of all firearms you can just save it.
 I want to know what laws you want passed by congress or state or local governments. Just to help out, between the US Government, state government and local government where I live in Michigan there are over 200 laws on the books that deal with firearms and firearm crimes. That’s right 200 (I got the books when I did my CCW class).

If you don’t have a law in mind, don’t respond.
If you have an idea for a law just list it, don’t give a five page dissertation on how it will help, just the law.

For you answers I’ll let you know if it in the books now or not, not whether your idea is a good one or not.

Remember, your feelings about any given gun law does not matter, only if it is allready on the books counts.

we don't need any new gun laws. in fact, there's probably more than a few, that can/should go away.

the only thing i think should be, should be a requirement to stay proficient with your weapons. i see too many that only take their guns out once or twice a month, and think that;s good enough. it's not.
 safety courses, designed, and given by gun owners, not the govt.
 if your gun is stolen, by ANYONE, and used for any sort of crime, you go on trial too. there;s no excuse for not securing your weapons properly.

 

[Steel]

we don't need any new gun laws. in fact, there's probably more than a few, that can/should go away.

the only thing i think should be, should be a requirement to stay proficient with your weapons. i see too many that only take their guns out once or twice a month, and think that;s good enough. it's not.
 safety courses, designed, and given by gun owners, not the govt.
 if your gun is stolen, by ANYONE, and used for any sort of crime, you go on trial too. there;s no excuse for not securing your weapons properly.

 

    Sorry shooting a gun is like riding a bike in many ways and I completely disagree with that. Sure you might not be able to ride as fast or as far after not shooting more months or years. You still however know to keep your feet out of the chain and keep the thing upright. The same could be said for gun safety and please don't confuse accuracy/speed with proficiency. Safety and awareness are the most important characteristics to be concerned with. I haven't fired a pistol in months perhaps even a year or two does that make me unsafe to handle a pistol? Even after a year of not firing a pistol I was able to go out shoot a few local cops during a competition. All fine individuals, excellent police men and great friends off the firing range. Police themselves all to often shoot there gun only when preparing to qualify. This means they can go 5 months or so without firing a single shot of any kind. When you talk about securing weapons properly I have to ask if your joking? If they steal my car am I responsible for that too? Cars kill more than guns so surely this would also be applied. No thanks...even gun safes are easily defeated given time. In the end we don't need any new laws just proper enforcement. More laws do NOT equal more gun control....

Steel

[CAP1]

    Sorry shooting a gun is like riding a bike in many ways and I completely disagree with that. Sure you might not be able to ride as fast or as far after not shooting more months or years. You still however know to keep your feet out of the chain and keep the thing upright. The same could be said for gun safety and please don't confuse accuracy/speed with proficiency.i was meaning safety in handling your weapon, and accuracy. speed comes later i think. Safety and awareness are the most important characteristics to be concerned with. I haven't fired a pistol in months perhaps even a year or two does that make me unsafe to handle a pistol? if you had a privat pilots lisence, and hadn;t flown for 2 years, would you go up solo?Even after a year of not firing a pistol I was able to go out shoot a few local cops during a competition.judging by what i've seen of the local PD's here in jersey, that's not really that hard i think. All fine individuals, excellent police men and great friends off the firing range. Police themselves all to often shoot there gun only when preparing to qualify.this is what i'm talking about. they;re nowhere near as accurate as they would be if they shot every week, rather than evfery few months. This means they can go 5 months or so without firing a single shot of any kind. When you talk about securing weapons properly I have to ask if your joking?i'm not. i only say that, because THAT is the only real argument that anti-gun people have. If they steal my car am I responsible for that too? Cars kill more than guns so surely this would also be applied. No thanks...even gun safes are easily defeated given time. In the end we don't need any new laws just proper enforcement. More laws do NOT equal more gun control....

Steel

i don't think ANY gun control is really needed to be honest. only law abiding people..such as yourself i'm assuming.....will abide by the restrictions. the restrictive laws do nothing to stop the bad guys. that's the only reason i mention securing your weapons. make it harder for them to steal yours.

 and of course enforce the laws on the boosk.

[Steel]

CAP,
    We agree to disagree on the safety issue regarding guns and lack of time spent shooting. The amount of information processing, decision times, and skill required for piloting make it hard to compare to shooting a gun. Gun safety can be summed up in just a few words. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire and don't point the gun at anything you cant live without. Follow these and I can promise the only thing you'll have to worry about is a gun malfunction. Hardly reviewable material even after years of not shooting. I agree that police are not as capable as they can be when looked at as a whole. For police it would be wise to step up training and get them to a respectable level compared to many other organizations. This is a general statement and I am sure there are people/units that defy this however.

Anyone convicted of a serious crime cannot own a gun.

Anyone physically and mentally able to carry a gun concealed should be able to do so with a easily attainable permit and background check.

Ammunition (excluding explosive and chemical agent types) and magazine capacity should be unrestricted.

Full automatic and multiple shot burst weapons are allowed to be produced and readily available to qualified persons. (similar to conceal carry)

Restricted areas would include government properties, sports and gambling events. (Yes CC at schools!)

Being that I just took away half the BATFE (or whatever its called these days) responsibilities they can now focus on ENFORCING the gun laws. This is the key, was the key, and will always be the key!

Edit: These are more deletions/changes than "new" laws but its what I would like to see. One thing to add is there would not be any restricted cities, towns, or states like California and New York City.

Steel

[CAVPFCDD]

we've concluded in the last thread that the only gun control would be to ban them outright, as long as they are legal in one form or another, the wrong people will be able to get their hands on them

heck, even they were illegal the wrong people would still be able to get a hold of them (ex: drugs)

[Timofei]

Gun laws.
 OK all this talk about gun control and banning and all that stuff. What I want to know is what laws do you think there should be.

If you talk about USA,  I think that all weapons should be allowed. Full automatic weapons, automatic grenade launchers, claymore mines, you name it.
As the Second Amendment protect the pre-existing individual right to "keep and bear arms" (i.e. to "possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation"), every citizen (white, hispano, black etc) should be able to have even nuclear weapons available in their backyard. The more guns the better.

[FLOTSOM]

we've concluded in the last thread that the only gun control would be to ban them outright, as long as they are legal in one form or another, the wrong people will be able to get their hands on them

heck, even they were illegal the wrong people would still be able to get a hold of them (ex: drugs)

i have no idea what thread your talking about or who the hell you were talking to, but nobody that has said to completely ban guns and that would definitely NOT come to a WE'VE CONCLUDED outcome in any conversation that you were having in this BBS.

banning weapons out right in The United States is not an answer of any kind nor is it going to happen. you ll just have to look for your nirvana in some other country.

there need be only a handfull of simple rules to govern the use of firearms in the US,

1 if a weapon is employed in the commission of a felony and an individual is harmed or killed by said weapons use then the penalty for the transgressor shall be that of death.

2 if a weapon is improperly stored and is stolen from the proper owner, or is loaned by the original owner to another person or persons, and then is subsequently used in the commission of a felony, by the thief and/or a recipient of the weapon in an illegal fashion, or borrower, causing bodily harm or death as a result of the use of that weapon, then the original owner shall be financially responsible (without the protective benefits of bankruptcy) to the victim or victims and/or the heirs of the victim or victims. the original owner shall also serve a sentence of not less than 3 years for each victim or victims harmed by said weapon.

3 sale or possession of a stolen or illegally obtained weapon shall be punishable by not less than 10 years in prison.

4 if a felony is committed with the brandishment of a weapon and no individual is harmed by the weapon then the individual committing said felony shall have the sentence of the original felony enhanced by not less than 15 additional years in prison. this 15 years shall be served on top of and after the sentence of the original felony sentence.

5 these penalties shall not be plea bargained or reduced by any deals and shall be the mandatory minimums allowed by the law.

it boils down to "if you use it you will suffer, if you allow it to be obtained by someone who uses it you will suffer, period!"

if you chose to own a weapon you also chose to bear complete responsibility for it. if you chose to commit a crime with a weapon then you need not ever be apart of society again.

this is the only attitude that will stop an individual from using weapons against another, or removing the transgressor from the public. i say weapon instead of gun, because if you stab a person in the heart are they any less dead than if you shot them? a weapon is a weapon, no matter what it is.

granted the laws of responsibility for the original owner if someone steals a bat or other item not originally intended as a weapon from your yard or house and harming someone with it should be different.

but if it is an obvious instrument designed and intended by its creator and original purchaser to be used as a weapon then it falls under this rule.

FLOTSOM

[Hornet33]

I could agree with all of that except number 2. Why should my guns be singled out from all the other property I own that if stolen from me and used in a manner that is illegal and causes harm to another person that I should be held responsible? If someone stole my truck, ran a red light evading the police and kills someone in the crosswalk, I'm not held responsible. I'm a VICTIM as well since my truck was stolen from me.

Your idea would have one of my guns being stolen from me( now Im a victim of robbery), I report it to the police as stolen (as soon as I find out it's been stolen), a week later someone uses that gun in a robbery, shoots and kills someone, and I'm now responsible? How can I be held accountable for someone elses actions? Yes it was my gun, that was illegaly taken from me without my knowledge or consent, but it's no different than if they had taken my truck and committed a crime with it.

Nope. You can't hold a gun owner accountable if his weapons were stolen from him and then used in a crime. If my weapons are in my house or vehicle, under the law, I have the reasonable expectation that my weapons are secure. Doesn't matter where they are in my home or vehicle. It's against the law for anyone to enter either without my express permission. If someone does and takes my weapons, I am now a victim of a crime, the weapons are no longer under my direct control, and I can no longer be held accountable for what happens with that weapon.

[kamilyun]

My new gun law?

Shoot thugs and gangbangers with them.

[ColSuave]

it doesnt matter unless you plan on searching every home in america. Because there are few that are gonna get rid of their firearms if there is a law passed. And if somebody plans on commiting a gun crime it doesnt matter if they are banned because they'll get a gun one way or another.

[FLOTSOM]

I could agree with all of that except number 2. Why should my guns be singled out from all the other property I own that if stolen from me and used in a manner that is illegal and causes harm to another person that I should be held responsible? If someone stole my truck, ran a red light evading the police and kills someone in the crosswalk, I'm not held responsible. I'm a VICTIM as well since my truck was stolen from me.

Your idea would have one of my guns being stolen from me( now Im a victim of robbery), I report it to the police as stolen (as soon as I find out it's been stolen), a week later someone uses that gun in a robbery, shoots and kills someone, and I'm now responsible? How can I be held accountable for someone elses actions? Yes it was my gun, that was illegaly taken from me without my knowledge or consent, but it's no different than if they had taken my truck and committed a crime with it.

Nope. You can't hold a gun owner accountable if his weapons were stolen from him and then used in a crime. If my weapons are in my house or vehicle, under the law, I have the reasonable expectation that my weapons are secure. Doesn't matter where they are in my home or vehicle. It's against the law for anyone to enter either without my express permission. If someone does and takes my weapons, I am now a victim of a crime, the weapons are no longer under my direct control, and I can no longer be held accountable for what happens with that weapon.

i agree with your argument in the most part.

but most of the guns used illegally were obtained by someone stealing them from an owner who left it where it was easily obtainable or actually given/sold to someone in an illegal manner and then claimed stolen later on.

they make gun safes, and trigger locks ect to prevent people from easily obtaining and using a weapon stolen from the owner.

if you lock up your weapons to the best of your reasonable ability then you would be exempt from any penalty inncured by the theft of the weapon. if you put it in a safe with a trigger lock on it, then you have complied with the gun safety laws and done all that could reasonably be asked of you as an individual to prevent your weapons from being stolen and subsequently used in a criminal manner.

obviously, if someone wants it bad enough they will come up with some inventive creative and unforeseeable way to get them. but if you have taken every precaution then you have done what is reasonable and responsible and should not be held liable.

by the way the law states that you must remove the keys from your vehicle and (in some states secure the vehicle) before leaving it unattended or you may be held financially responsible for the actions of any other person using said vehicle.

i agree with the theory that if you don't secure it then you should be culpable for it.

responsibility is something that should be practiced by all who chose to own an item that is designed and intended to take life, whether that be human or animal. the biggest reason criminals have weapons is the irresponsible or criminal actions of those who get them legally.

but most people do nothing to secure their weapons. they stuff them in a closet with the bullets on the shelf or even in the magazine. they may or may not set the safety, they take no precaution and they don't care what that weapon my do to someone else if it should fall into the hands of a person with evil intent.

if you chose to be irresponsible then you should suffer the consequences of that decision.

FLOTSOM

[ink]

I think a law, that states every one is mandatory to own a gun, and take lessons on how to use them.

there would be way less crime if the crimanals knew that every one had a gun.

[CAP1]

i agree with your argument in the most part.

but most of the guns used illegally were obtained by someone stealing them from an owner who left it where it was easily obtainable or actually given/sold to someone in an illegal manner and then claimed stolen later on.

they make gun safes, and trigger locks ect to prevent people from easily obtaining and using a weapon stolen from the owner.

if you lock up your weapons to the best of your reasonable ability then you would be exempt from any penalty inncured by the theft of the weapon. if you put it in a safe with a trigger lock on it, then you have complied with the gun safety laws and done all that could reasonably be asked of you as an individual to prevent your weapons from being stolen and subsequently used in a criminal manner.

obviously, if someone wants it bad enough they will come up with some inventive creative and unforeseeable way to get them. but if you have taken every precaution then you have done what is reasonable and responsible and should not be held liable.

by the way the law states that you must remove the keys from your vehicle and (in some states secure the vehicle) before leaving it unattended or you may be held financially responsible for the actions of any other person using said vehicle.

i agree with the theory that if you don't secure it then you should be culpable for it.

responsibility is something that should be practiced by all who chose to own an item that is designed and intended to take life, whether that be human or animal. the biggest reason criminals have weapons is the irresponsible or criminal actions of those who get them legally.

but most people do nothing to secure their weapons. they stuff them in a closet with the bullets on the shelf or even in the magazine. they may or may not set the safety, they take no precaution and they don't care what that weapon my do to someone else if it should fall into the hands of a person with evil intent.

if you chose to be irresponsible then you should suffer the consequences of that decision.

FLOTSOM

EXACTLY.

that was the point i was trying to make, i just didn't wanna argue.

and given the ability of lawyers these days, yes......no matter WHERE you live, if someone steals your car or truck, and it wasn;t secured, you will most likely end up paying for something from the resulting bad stuff.