AvA Attitude

[Eagler]

with all that said ... you do seem to be a vulching tool Dawg
your screenshots speak volumes of your actual ability in this game
hope to run into you there some day LOL

[Odee]

I would have settled this over PMs

Sometimes ya just gotta grab the dog by the ears and give a good yank to get its attention.
 

 

This isn't going to end well . . . 

But he does make a point... If in a rambling manner.

I have to agree with him though.  This is an MMOG.  If you want 1v1 then take it to the DA where 1v1 is offered and respected.  Trying making the AvA a mini-DA will bode no good for any of us.

[captain1ma]

all in all, this is a INteresting thread 

[republic]

This too shall pass.  If you don't like the AvA don't fly there, goes for all sides of the argument.

No point in trying to make people play your way, again...goes for both sides of the argument.

[Odee]

This too shall pass.  If you don't like the AvA don't fly there, goes for all sides of the argument.

No point in trying to make people play your way, again...goes for both sides of the argument.

Absolutely correct! 

And if you want some 1v1 action... well you know where to go for that too.

[E25280]

Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .

I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway?  If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH).  If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.

The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight."  This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules."  Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around.  He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other.  (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?)  So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.

Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off.  I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s.  But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO.  That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves.  If they don't, they will leave.

Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.

All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.

[Dawger]

In the last century when I started flying online vulching was shooting a plane that was still in contact with the ground. Over a decade later it is anything that resembles a vertical fight within 20 miles of a base. Times change......


Yea....the attitude over in Warbirds was different. I kinda think its generational. I've always approached the game from the standpoint that if I got killed its because I made a mistake. I don't blame it on HO, pick, gang, or some imaginary rules violation. Its my own damn fault and I try to learn from my mistakes.

As for handling this via PM........

The entire point is to bring this behavior into public focus.

If HTC wants to step in and codify this supposed set of AvA rules I'll abide by them.

But I suspect that is not the case.

Fudgums came back into the AvA this afternoon and promised I would be run out of the AvA. He even promised a PNG for me if I posted our last conversation in the AvA. Maybe I will get PNG'ed or "run out". If MMO flight simulation is now a Bruce Lee film where you must wait your turn to attack the hero then it is time for me to go anyway.

I fly to be part of a team against a team. I've gotten my bellyful of 1 v 1 as a trainer in Warbirds for 8 years. Teamwork and camaraderie are what makes online gaming a long term endeavor. Every online experience that does not involve interaction with others and teamwork becomes stale very quickly.

I know the constant denigration of teamwork in the AvA (and the Main) is wearing pretty darn thin for me.

My squad was pretty excited about the AvA when we first moved over from WB but the attitude in there was so anti-squadron operations that we stopped flying there fairly quickly. We went from potentially huge proponents of the AvA to a Main Arena squadron solely because of the attitude we encountered whenever we flew in there.

We assumed the AvA was the arena where one could find more of an historical re-creation. Frankly, I expected teamwork and squadron style operations to be encouraged, not actively discouraged.

In any case I'm going to continue to make the case against unwritten gameplay rules because I pay to play and I would not dare tell another paying customer how he must behave and I expect the same.

[bongaroo]

If you pick in an any arena and have 200 tuned than you should expect and learn to deal with it being discussed.

If a friendly asks you to stay out of a 1v1 you should respect the request.

[Dawger]

Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .

I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway?  If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH).  If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.

If Lonmower had said stay out he is mine I would have stayed out (to the extent possible...they were literally fighting over the runway I took off from). But he would have to say so. I make no such assumptions and if you see me fighting a bandit, come on and whack him one. I don't even care if you shoot the flaming wreckage in order to get the kill credit.

My attitude is anything less than a pilot kill is poor gunnery on my part and the next guy can certainly correct my error.

No I don't shoot flaming wreckage. It is tactically stupid and a waste of ammunition.

[Larry]

Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .

I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway?  If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH).  If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.

The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight."  This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules."  Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around.  He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other.  (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?)  So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.

Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off.  I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s.  But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO.  That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves.  If they don't, they will leave.

Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.

All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.

bingo

[Anaxogoras]

The truth:

Anyone attempting to coerce other players into their style of gameplay is wrong to do so.  It is one thing to offer up the different styles, but it is an entirely different matter when one attempts to force other players to play 'their' game.

[fudgums]

First time I actually feel like quiting.

Got what you wanted Dawger?

[fudgums]

Dawger, you working for NBC?

because you just come in there. We tell you how things go. Not rules but how 1v1 are respected and stuff. then you come on here and tell the world.

The thing is...only 14-20 people get in the arena each night. There is no room for MA mentality. It is straight 1v1 fun. Id rather die in a 1v1 then die when someone jumps in. Most of the new guys that came in. Got it fast. 1v1 are the best way to learn. Not to jump in. If you have a problem then leave or we will fight some where else from you. But Im not going to change my style. or let someone else. Come on here and try to humilate me.

[republic]

Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .

I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway?  If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH).  If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.

The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight."  This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules."  Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around.  He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other.  (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?)  So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.

Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off.  I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s.  But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO.  That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves.  If they don't, they will leave.

Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.

All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.

Wish I'd thought a way to say what you said lol

Perfect response  +10 forum perkies 

[Masherbrum]

I strolled into the AvA last month.   What some are "Defending" (Ganging, etc ), they had no problem participating in.   There was even an "Etiquette" thread up.   All but one of the rules were routinely broken by those who started it, and "supported it".   

It's a shame the "sway of guilt" only fits their suit of the day.   It's called "hypocrisy."   

WTFG Dawger.