Thoughts on the P-47N

[Anaxogoras]

Acceleration.  Hands down if you get a Jug and P51 same speed, say 140 mph the jug will out accelerate the pony.

With all due respect, Hajo, flight test data does not support this assertion.  The P-51D out accelerates the P-47N from 150-200mph, and from 200-250mph.  From 300mph-350mph they are equal.

[Hajo]

Gav....I said from 140mph...which is only a 10mph difference.  Slightly nose down even at 1000ft, gravity will help the heavier Jug to
accelerate faster.  Now  at low altitude the P51 is faster level flight. But only slightly.  I prefer the D model Jugs.  The N is not very good at anything at 10K or below.  And as I said in a stall....the Jug will come out better and quicker then the P51.

[Stoney]

I prefer the D model Jugs.  The N is not very good at anything at 10K or below.

I'll allow your personal preference, but to say the N is "not very good" at 10K or below is selling it short.  At 10K feet, there are only five planes faster than it, and two of them are perked, and the differences between the Jug N and some of the unperked planes are small amounts of speed.  At typical MA weights and on WEP, it will climb in excess of 3000 fpm, which puts in the "average to above average" category.  Roll rate is second only to the 190 series and Spit 16.

[Hajo]

Stoney- weights empty P47N 21,200 lbs.  P47D 19,400 lbs  P47M 14,700 lbs.  the P47N had a bigger wing.

Again as far as I know the P47N never saw a 109 or 190.  It was relegated to the PAC.

the M which was much lighter did see some use during the end of the war in Europe was slightly faster then the N
but had a myriad of teething troubles before it was used regularly in Combat.  As I recall they were chiefly engine
problems...but atm I don't have that reference in front of me so this is on recall only.

I've used them all.  And I don't use wep on climbout.  Auto-climb the N Jug struggles to make 2K per minute at 75% fuel. 3400 rds of ammo.
The D40 models at 100% fuel with 3400 rds of ammo and same auto-climb setting climb 225 ft/min faster.  2250ft/min. (both on takeoff)

In real fighting I'm sure they didn't use WEP on climbout.  They might have a pooched powerplant before they got to battle.
Engine damage could occur, and using WEP when not necessary was not a good idea. Imagine having an engine when you get to combat
damaged already and the WEP already expended. We suffer no damages in game from using WEP.  They did in WWII most times.
In aces high it does no damage and by miracle you get to use it again.  Once it was used, it was done if they emptied the Methanol or water tanks.  Depending on type of injection of course.

Again....you can get what you want by controlling ammo and fuel loads.

If you can pick up Warren Bodies book titled "From Seversky to Victory, The P47 Thunderbolt"

.

[Stoney]

Stoney the N has a longer wing then the D models.  Roll rate should be better in the shorter winged models. The M model had shorter wings then the N. 

Excerpt from Widewing's website:

"The XP-47N took to the air for the first time on July 22, 1944. Test comparisons were made with a P-47D-30-RE throughout the early portion of the evaluation period. Much to everyone’s surprise, the XP-47N, with its greater wingspan and higher weight actually proved to have better roll performance than the D model. At 250 mph TAS, the N attained a maximum roll rate just over 100 degrees/second. The P-47D-30-RE could manage but 85 degrees/second at the same speed. At higher speeds, the N widened the gap further. In mock combat with a P-47D-25-RE, the new fighter proved to be notably superior in every category of performance. In short, the XP-47 waxed the venerable D model regardless of who was piloting the older fighter. The new wing was part of this newfound dogfighting ability, however, the more powerful C series engine played a role too. The additional horsepower allowed the N to retain its energy better than the older Thunderbolt. Perhaps the greatest performance increase was in maximum speed. Though not as fast as the stunning P-47M, the heavier N was fully 40 mph faster than the P-47D-25-RE and could generate speeds 30 mph greater than its principal rival, the Mustang. Scorching along at 467 mph @ 32,000 ft., the N could not be caught by any fighter in regular service with any air force on earth with the single exception of its M model sibling."

And yes, they did use 72" of MP during takeoff and climbout during combat missions.  Try http://www.inpayne.com/dad/ickyandme.html for a link to a story about a pilot taking off from Ie Shima's short runways loaded for a trip to Japan and back.  Per the POH for the P-47N, the aircraft took off with enough water to run 72" of MP for 15 total minutes, even though it was limited to 5 minutes at a time.  At lower MP, you could run water for longer than 15 minutes.

Last, my reference to rate of climb on WEP was not made with regard to climbing out after takeoff, it was made in the context of a combat situation where those 2800 HP give you a climbing advantage over the D models.

[Hajo]

Stoney...read my post again.  It is in game on the climbouts.  Without WEP. 

And.....WEP on climbout wasn't a standard practice.  It was used only when absolutely necessary. (fully loaded).

When used as escorts they didn't use wep until they actually needed to in combat. 

[Wingnutt]

With 4 variants, including the "uber" N model, we have a fairly robust Jug line up.  Even though we don't have the most numerous variant built (the D-22/23) nor the least numerous model built (the M), compared to what some other players have to deal with in this game, we have it made.

Be patient, the M will arrive in due time.

we far from have it made..

we have a plane that by design is at a disadvantage in the MA type of combat, and on top of that we dont even have the best version of it.

[Stoney]

Ask a Russian player how well they like the Yak-3 we have in game, or the Lagg-3, or I-16.  Or ask the Finns how they enjoy flying their favorite plane--the Brewster.  Oh wait, they don't exist, not even a single version of any of those aircraft.  So, we are indeed fortunate to be able to have 4 models of our favorite aircraft.

As far as it is disadvantaged in the MA, HTC did not design the game to take place only at 8,000 feet and below.  That has happened as a result of the players flying and fighting at those altitudes. 

[Wingnutt]

Ask a Russian player how well they like the Yak-3 we have in game, or the Lagg-3, or I-16.  Or ask the Finns how they enjoy flying their favorite plane--the Brewster.  Oh wait, they don't exist, not even a single version of any of those aircraft.  So, we are indeed fortunate to be able to have 4 models of our favorite aircraft.

As far as it is disadvantaged in the MA, HTC did not design the game to take place only at 8,000 feet and below.  That has happened as a result of the players flying and fighting at those altitudes. 

weather its because it was designed that way or not is arbitrary, thats how its played..   you take a plane to 20k+ and more often than not you will have little more than time to reflect on your day..    fact of the matter is, the MA is 90% below 10K, right in the wheel house of the LA7s, Spixteens.. etc

as for the "how well do the russian players like their yak-3"..  well im sure they would like it, for the first week of having it they might actually fly it..  after that you would see it about as much as you see the P39 as it would be absolutely outclassed by the Yak9, LA5 and 7

the P47M would be an aircraft that would actually be competitive in the MA in average hands and as such would get lots of stick time, and would be worth adding.. apples and oranges to compare it to the Yak-3, lagg -3 or most of the "gap fillers" which are planes that while being novel to have would ultimately see little use once the newness wore off.

[Motherland]

as for the "how well do the russian players like their yak-3"..  well im sure they would like it, for the first week of having it they might actually fly it..  after that you would see it about as much as you see the P39 as it would be absolutely outclassed by the Yak9, LA5 and 7

Lol, the Yak-3 was the ultimate evolution of the Yakovlev series and probably among the best low level fighters of the war.

[Wingnutt]

Lol, the Yak-3 was the ultimate evolution of the Yakovlev series and probably among the best low level fighters of the war.

the Yak-3 with the VK107 engine would be superior with the  yak 9 we have, something like 440mph top speed or so I think,  but less than 100 made..

[Stoney]

but less than 100 made...

Eerily similar to the P-47M production numbers then?

[Wingnutt]

Eerily similar to the P-47M production numbers then?

more 47Ms saw service than yak-3 VK107s were made.

they went int service in the 56th and are credited with several 262 kills.

[BnZs]

There are bigger holes in the plane set, but the 47M is a highly desired item that would see alot of use and since it is alot like a D-40 with more horses, presumably wouldn't take as much development as something completely new.

Anyone have a firm idea on what kind of performance we could expect out of the M? A little better than the N?

[Krusty]

Same few whines over and over for the P-47M.

And the P-47M had a heavier engine in an off-the-assembly-line P-47D fuselage. It had a standard wing. It woudl NOT be 5000lbs lighter as claimed. That's bull pucky.

Stock frame, new engine. Does NOT equate to 5,000lbs less weight.