Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[SlapShot]

Mind you, its formidable gun package is *not* enough to justify perking it when other rides sport quad cannons, so the *only* reason left is to force people into other varieties of Hog.

That is an narrow assumption at best ... unless of course you are privy to HTC company discussions, which I don't think you are.

[Karnak]

By God sir, between the two of I am the one who has bothered to get evidence. You are the one who has irrelevancies such as "But this Spitfire Mk is actually equivalent to one from 1943!", which does not change the relative performance of the bird one bit, and who consistently ignores the fact that usage and k/d can be warped by a great many factors other than actual effectiveness. You are unable to distinguish between a mediocre performing plane whose popularity does not effect the viability of practically anything else in the MA vs. a superbly performing machine whose popularity darn well does effect the viability of many otherwise potentially useful rides in the MA. If I were to take up a position equivalent to yours as regards USN planes, I would be lobbying to get the F4U-4 unperked as we speak.

It is your insistance on lying that makes it impossible to talk to you about it.  You are so convinced that only you have supplied data, but you reject all data that doesn't support your conclusion as invalid, thus permitting you to lie and claim nobody else has submitted data.

Also, I haven't used the "It is a 1943 fighter" as an argument for many years, so you are lying about that too.


Also I note that you have already revealed your next crusade should you get the Spitfire XVI perked, and that is the La-7.  I imagine the Spitfire VIII would follow that.

[Karnak]

And I fly a bloody A5 around quite abit when I could just as easily fly a Dora, but what is your point? Unperk the C-Hog and it will be majority of Corsairs. Mind you, its formidable gun package is *not* enough to justify perking it when other rides sport quad cannons, so the *only* reason left is to force people into other varieties of Hog.

You have no idea what you are talking about.  You simply cannot isolate data that way and take it out of context.  The F4U-1C and Typhoon Mk Ib both have four Hispanos, but that hardly tells the whole story and there are valid reasons the F4U-1C was getting ~20% of the kills in a tour while the Tiffie got a fraction of that, despite having the same gun package.

You are wrong about the F4U-1C.

[Anaxogoras]

Isn't it true that the planeset was much smaller when the C-Hog was unperked?  And there was no Spit XVI?  These two planes balance each other out nicely.

[SlapShot]

Isn't it true that the planeset was much smaller when the C-Hog was unperked?  And there was no Spit XVI?  These two planes balance each other out nicely.

True

True

True

[SlapShot]

Unperked Charlie wouldn't change my usage at all. Just like now, I'd still use her primarily for air to ground work when the 1D doesn't quite have the firepower I want, and the 1A for air-to-air.

Same here ...

C-Hog for CV defense to smack down bombers/JABO quickly

D-Hog for attack (ords)

1A-Hog for dogfighting

[WMLute]

The La7 is inferior to the Spit16 in every way except top speed.

La7 is faster under 20k.

The Spit 16 does roll better.

The Spit 16 outclimbs the La7 with wep but w/o wep both have a near identical climb under 8k.

La7 out accelerates the spit 16.

With no flaps the Spit 16 does out turn the La7 but it is somewhat close "ish".  Similar to a Spit 16 vs. a Niki.

Full flaps their turn rates are pretty much identical.

Looks to me like a very close match up with a huge edge to the La7 because of speed.  Because of that speed the La7 gets to dictate the fight.  So the La7 pilot not only can engage and disengage at will but if they so choose the La7 can drop flaps and stall fight 'em.

How exactly is that inferior in every way?  Sounds to me like the La7 has a pretty big edge.


And I agree that I would rather see a Spit 16's than La7's.  The typical dweeb 16 pilot tends to fight it out.  I also agree that the La7 should have a light perk (2-3 perks) for the 3 gun package.

[WMLute]

(double post)

Does HTC know that the BBS freezes up all the time?

Not just me apparently as the same thing happened to Karnak.  (and to Trax1 in the O'Club just now)

It is not odd at all every couple days that the BBS won't load.  I can get to any other web page but this one.  I tend to wait 5-10 min. and it clears up but i'm curious if HTC knows this is even happening.

Like Karnak says below I even closed Firefox and logged back in.  I could view posts but it would freez when I tried to reply.

[Karnak]

It would be interesting to see the F4U-1C unperked again just to see what would happen.

I do note its usage is pretty decent even perked and it has a very healthy K/D ratio, more than some other perked units.

[Karnak]

Forum hicup.  Even backed out, refreshed and checked to see if it had posted before I tried again.

[bucew]

The ONLY defensible reason for keeping the C-Hog perked is to keep the other 1-Hogs in use instead of this historically rare variant. There are other free quad-cannon birds in the game.

This is a reason I accept. It also means that reasons for perking an airplane can be diverse and not entirely consistent. Which is also fine. But because the reasons behind perking are diverse and inconsistent, don't hit me with the phrase "It's not unbalancing!!!" and expect that alone to stand as a valid argument.

to quote HTC:

"The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that.  Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc.  These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis."

The only argument for perking the planes and vehicles is do they unbalance the gameplay.
Maybe k/d ratio isnt all that is important but since spit16 has lower k/d ratio than P-51D and some 20-40% less kills than P-51D (last 5 tours) is IMO enough to say that spit16 isn't unbalancing.

[Anaxogoras]

Define unbalancing in a way that makes it impossible that the P-40B should ever be perked.

[whels]

It would be interesting to see the F4U-1C unperked again just to see what would happen.

I do note its usage is pretty decent even perked and it has a very healthy K/D ratio, more than some other perked units.

At the time the Chog was perked, we had alot of water maps. CV usuage was alot more than it is now.
So the plane of choice was the Chog to cap the field, and plane set was smaller.

[Karnak]

Define unbalancing in a way that makes it impossible that the P-40B should ever be perked.

Why does it need  a better definition than for HiTech and Pyro to say "I know it when I see it?"  Not everything needs to fit in a nice little, perfectly defined, box.

[Anaxogoras]

Why does it need  a better definition than for HiTech and Pyro to say "I know it when I see it?"  Not everything needs to fit in a nice little, perfectly defined, box.

So that we can stop debating and gnashing teeth over it?   Truly, no one is convinced when an artificial term like "unbalancing" is left purposely ambiguous.  We're not talking about "love" or "good" or other terms that are part of the natural history of our species.

Moreover, in regards to artificial terms, if I can't interpret a consistent meaning from their use, then the speaker doesn't know what they mean, either.