Author Topic: What we need are some What If planes  (Read 10236 times)

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #150 on: May 20, 2009, 04:22:52 PM »
I can't think of any good reason to answer that open ended question.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #151 on: May 20, 2009, 04:31:14 PM »
You claimed you had "a good handle on what the 110 can and can't do", but now you refuse to quantify that. Ok, I'll just disregard your claim then.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2009, 04:33:05 PM »
Let me guess... 109 driver? ;)

Not really...I just find getting aware bandits to actually make themselves vulnerable to *my* level of gunnery in an E fighter often requires something more than the keep it fast, up and down method...need to be a bit tastier, closer, maneuvering target to get them to bite. So I find a good power loading and/or a good E-retention under Gs (Ta-152) at least as useful in combat as a good pure zoom.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #153 on: May 20, 2009, 04:37:31 PM »
Not really...I just find getting aware bandits to actually make themselves vulnerable to *my* level of gunnery in an E fighter often requires something more than the keep it fast, up and down method...need to be a bit tastier, closer, maneuvering target to get them to bite. So I find a good power loading and/or a good E-retention under Gs (Ta-152) at least as useful in combat as a good pure zoom.

Indeed.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #155 on: May 20, 2009, 06:00:41 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 03:45:06 PM by Skuzzy »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #156 on: May 20, 2009, 06:05:48 PM »
Come on, don't be like that.  :frown:
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2009, 06:18:41 PM »
Yes, and that makes it easy to add to the game (when they get around to remodeling the Ki-61). The Ki-100 is very cool and might get some love from the turn and burn crowd.

My list was meant to list aircraft that AH doesn't have which could be fairly popular in the LWMA. I doubt Ki-100 coud be any more popular than the Ki-61 we have now and it really isn't that much used.


There were many versions of the Pe-2, some more MA friendly than others. I'd like the Pe-2FT and Pe-2I. The FT was the mass produced light-bomber version. I think there is a place in the MA for a 360 mph at 13,000 feet light bomber with 3,527 lb bomb load. The I was a late-war fighter-bomber, based on the Pe-2F, and powered by VK-107A engines. It could carry a bigger bomb load because of the mid-wing configuration, and was configured as a two-seater with a remote controlled .50 cal in the tail. A max level speed of 407 mph at altitude and 343 mph at sea level. It could climb to 16,400 ft (5.000 m) in 7 min 6 sec, and had a range of 1,317 miles.
Often nicknamed the Soviet Mosquito. I think there is room for a 407 mph fighter-bomber twin in the MA.

In any case, there is no excuse for not having such an important, 11,000+ produced combat aircraft in AH.

According to all sources I have seen Pe-2FT's max. bomb load is no more than 2204lbs (1000kg). Pe-2FT's speed is normally listed around 320-330mph. I've never seen figures even approaching 360mpn. Finally, there were only 5 Pe-2I's made, none of them saw combat.

If I had to name two planes that should be added next they would be Ki-43 and Pe-2. Both are very important scenario/special events aircraft but again, I don't think Pe-2 would see much more use in the LWMA than Boston III due to it's rather small bomb load.

I'll leave you guys to argue about the He-219. I've said my opinion regarding it. :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:37:57 PM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2009, 06:29:13 PM »
Even the Aussies wouldnt fly it. Just like they wouldnt have in real life had they something better. Didnt they replace them with P-40s or wildcats ?

Now the Beaufighter? I think that would be competative as a strike air craft. Plus its so cool looking.

Boomerang would be a good addition to the Early War and even Mid-War plane set.  While outclassed by Japanese fighters, it was still a decent plane with good handling characteristics and maneuverability.  It was also a good gun platform with its mix of machine guns and cannons and used quite extensively as an interceptor until it was finally removed from this roll in late '43 when P-40s and Spitfires became available.  The Boomerang was then used in the ground support role and did quite well.

If the Finns get the Brewster then the Aussies should get the Boomerang.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2009, 06:41:36 PM »
The loadouts I listed were correct. They're all in yours except for the B2/U4 which I got from some book, can't recall which.  I'm fairly sure the whole A2 never happened as A2 because the 103s weren't ready.  So you're calling me out on inaccuracies I haven't made, while yourself making some.  

What do you make of notes (can't find the two places, other than wikipedia, where I read it) that 103s were usually not fitted, for weight concerns?
What do you make of all the hints that the plane never made the predicted performance?  Fully fueled and armed, it couldn't climb above 26kft. Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II says its (A7 model) top speed is actually 385mph. One (admittedly unreferenced) page on the web says that with all the extras, it did only 360mph.
What do you make of the damn plain fact that the 219's heft means that despite its supposed top speed of a bit more than 400mph, it'll be an anchor in anything but extreme bnz like the A8 is restricted to?  That it's a huge target and will never be as capable as the mossie... which thanks to everyone with any clue, gets ganged silly on sight?  If the mossie can't compete, how's the 219 supposed to?  

WMaker specifically said that because of the wingloading, it wouldn't be too maneuverable.  You replied to this by saying that the wingloading was comparable to the P38.  What the hell is that supposed to mean, other than that the 219 would be "maneuverable" on par with the P38?  How the hell is the 219 supposed to be "fast" when it's that heavy?  The 152 is "fast" too, but can't accelerate worth a damn thanks to its heft. I don't know how f=ma escapes you like that.  The 219 being underpowered would be as helpless as a P51D or P47 that had slowed to drop its flaps - most other planes will just walk away from it or get above it, out of its reach.
Cpt Brown is who said that it was underpowered.  If that's not a good enough reference, anyone can look at the damn specs and see that the powerloading sucks.

The only way the 219 would be a viable alternative to the 410 is if it didn't have all these disadvantages, and if it had the 1900HP 603G.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 07:35:10 PM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #160 on: May 20, 2009, 07:24:19 PM »


The A-20 is also one of those killer surprises if flown light and right: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV6Ue2bAnO8

Like the Bf 110, if an A-20 is caught by most single engine fighters flown by a pilot of equal or superior skill, the Havoc will die.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #161 on: May 20, 2009, 08:17:30 PM »
The 219 apparently had drooping ailerons. 
And apparently the ~410mph figure is for a stripped down model.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:18:12 PM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23046
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2009, 10:16:01 PM »
The 219 apparently had drooping ailerons. 
And apparently the ~410mph figure is for a stripped down model.
From what I have read, no He219 ever managed to break 400mph level in Luftwaffe service.  The oft quoted 416mph number were Heinkel claims.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #163 on: May 20, 2009, 10:28:13 PM »
From what I have read, no He219 ever managed to break 400mph level in Luftwaffe service.  The oft quoted 416mph number were Heinkel claims.

Just like the claims the He 219 shooting down 6 Mosquitos during one mission.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: What we need are some What If planes
« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2009, 11:42:27 PM »
Just like the claims the He 219 shooting down 6 Mosquitos during one mission.

ack-ack

Sure that was not Lancasters?