What we need are some What If planes

[Wmaker]

I've come to pretty much same conclusions as you regarding the A and B...no big differences with similar loadouts.

[Die Hard]

In all the time I played, I never lost a Mossie to a Bf110 either.  The closest I came was a pilot wound from the tail gun that I received while he ate quad 20mm.  I've only downed two fighters with the quad .303s, one was an La-7 that I shot up and it subsequently stalled out into the ground and the other was a Bf110G-2 that I took the wing off of.

I consider the Bf110 to be the weakest of the twin engined fighters for air-to-air combat.

I think that’s a result of your superior skills in the Mossie, or bad memory. I bet it’s the former.

The in-game performance numbers (unless DoKGonzo, Widewing, Hammer and MOSQ’s data is now obsolete) favor the 110G over the Mosquito. Mossie is 22 mph faster on the deck, but the 110 has a tighter turning circle and slightly better climb rate. Has the Mossie’s performance been changed?

Wager.

A wager huh? What’s next? You’ll double-dare me, and call me out at dawn? lol

What are the parameters of the wager? And what do you think should be the stakes?

The argument wasn't (isn't) a wishlist perspective at all. 

Then why start it in this thread?

The "attacks" on your person are for fudging the arguments, not for arguing in contradiction per se.

I haven’t “fudged” anything to my knowledge, and even if I had, that’s no excuse for making personal attacks.

When you played forum-Sheriff in the Tiger thread you said “Refute his argument or concede”, and “So just refute his factual arguments.”

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262580.msg3296795.html#msg3296795

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

The same accuracy and impartiality that you leave out when you pretend the A8 isn't a lump of lead or that the A20 is better than mediocre anytime there isn't a horde to clear its six, or that the P47 is some kind of one-unit airforce "if you put a good pilot in it"/"if its opponents are clueless", or that the 110 is somehow the 38's equal.  Now that's objective. 

When did I say that the A-20 is better than mediocre? Nor have I said or implied that the P-47 is a “one-unit airforce”. You’re putting words in my mouth, and that’s not very nice either.

If you had a clue, you'd realize that's how I see it too.  I'm just arguing what's arguable.

So you’re arguing just for argument’s sake?

Only that the 219 doesn't stand a chance of being included before the 410, and that this and other circumstance push its intro way back.  Why is the interesting argument. 

First of all, I have never said the 219 should be modeled before the 410, and frankly I couldn’t care less. Why would it be interesting?

Bombers: Yes, a 50mm shell shot at 50cal velocity and reaching out to 2K (nevermind unending time of flight) once a second will ruin bombers' day.  It is safer than MK108s. 

The MK 103 also has a muzzle velocity similar to the 50 cal. Don’t you think a Me 410 lobbing 17 30mm rounds has a much greater chance of hitting a bomber at range than lobbing a single 50mm round?

Perhaps you could be less of a bore by arguing the points instead of beating around the bush with semantics and cherry picking?

No one forced you to start this argument. No one is forcing you to continue it. And no one is forcing you to be so impolite and degrading.

That's funny.  Those posts are the polite ones…

Calling people stupid and clueless is not polite; even in France.

I don't see how any of this is relevant to the topic at hand. Just like the A-26 is a bit redundant so are both the 410 and 219. No question the 410 would be a better fit for scenarios then the 219.

Exactly! 

[Motherland]

On the subject of the BK 5-

"At the beginning of the war our tanks could only open fire from a distance of 800 yards if they wanted to be sure of the results, while our latest types were in a position to combat enemy tanks from a distance of 3000 yards. The Jagdwaffe alone had not developed along these lines. They still had to close in to 400 yards before they could use their weapons effectively.
From this consideration arose the order for fighters and destroyers to use a large-caliber long-distance cannon against  the American bomber formations. The result was as follows: an Me-410 destroyer, equipped with [the] armored-car cannon KWK 5, weighing 2000 pounds (!), was reconstructed as an automatic weapon with a magazine holding about 15 shells, [with] a rate of fire [of] about one shot per second. It was possible to fly with this monster sticking 3 yards out in front; firing was possible, too, although the cannon jammed hopelessly after about five shots. One could even hit something, not at 1000 or 3000 yards' distance, but at the most from 400 yards! Beyond that all chances of a hit were spoiled by having to fly the aircraft. Nothing was gained, therefore, and firing was reduced to single shots. We used to say ironically that we only had to shatter the morale of the bomber crew by a few artillery shots, then we could ram the Mustangs and Thunderbolts with our gun barrel.

From The First and the Last by Adolf Galland.

[moot]

Die Hard, lemme know when you're in game and open for some fights.  Arguing this with you doesnt matter to me anymore. You just don't get it. 
fyi there's nothing degrading about being frank.  If you had any experience (the pattern here, talking about what you dont know about), youd know that "in france" even big mouths get lots of credence if they call things out as they are.. A polite hypocrit gets little consideration in comparison.  Theres nothing degrading in calling out what I think is the real reason for all the "fuzz". You're old. Thats the cultural barrier.

Motherland - Consider the perfectly still air and controls of planes in AH. The distances we shoot at and deflection angles we manage.  Unless the BK5 flies sideways, it's going to be hard to miss with it.. Consider the 30mm shots we land while firing just 2 rounds at a time...  I know where my wager money is.

[Die Hard]

fyi there's nothing degrading about being frank. 

If that includes calling people stupid, clueless, old squeak and all the other degrading remarks you've thrown at me these last few pages... Yes, that's degrading.

And thank you for conceding; even if you couldn't do it gracefully.

[moot]

See Rule #4

[Die Hard]

Even if you're being honest you can't call people stupid, clueless and now "thick" without it being an insult. I know English isn't your first language, but this is something I think is much the same in all languages. If you call someone stupid, it's an insult and degrading no matter if you're being honest or not.

As for the rest; take your own advice: “Refute his argument or concede.”

[moot]

See Rule #4

[Die Hard]

See Rule #5

[Die Hard]

Nice edit, but you were too late.

[moot]

   There's nothing changed in the post that tries to hide something. 
I disagree on what I should or shouldn't do.
This is my last post to you in this thread on this argument.

[Angus]

On the subject of the BK 5-

"At the beginning of the war our tanks could only open fire from a distance of 800 yards if they wanted to be sure of the results, while our latest types were in a position to combat enemy tanks from a distance of 3000 yards. The Jagdwaffe alone had not developed along these lines. They still had to close in to 400 yards before they could use their weapons effectively.
From this consideration arose the order for fighters and destroyers to use a large-caliber long-distance cannon against  the American bomber formations. The result was as follows: an Me-410 destroyer, equipped with [the] armored-car cannon KWK 5, weighing 2000 pounds (!), was reconstructed as an automatic weapon with a magazine holding about 15 shells, [with] a rate of fire [of] about one shot per second. It was possible to fly with this monster sticking 3 yards out in front; firing was possible, too, although the cannon jammed hopelessly after about five shots. One could even hit something, not at 1000 or 3000 yards' distance, but at the most from 400 yards! Beyond that all chances of a hit were spoiled by having to fly the aircraft. Nothing was gained, therefore, and firing was reduced to single shots. We used to say ironically that we only had to shatter the morale of the bomber crew by a few artillery shots, then we could ram the Mustangs and Thunderbolts with our gun barrel.

From The First and the Last by Adolf Galland.

I have that book, but in German. "Dolfo" speaks a lot of the equipment by the way. It would probably not suit the "etiquette" to quote from my version though 

[Karnak]

I think that’s a result of your superior skills in the Mossie, or bad memory. I bet it’s the former.

The in-game performance numbers (unless DoKGonzo, Widewing, Hammer and MOSQ’s data is now obsolete) favor the 110G over the Mosquito. Mossie is 22 mph faster on the deck, but the 110 has a tighter turning circle and slightly better climb rate. Has the Mossie’s performance been changed?

The Mossie has always climbed slightly better than the Bf110G at low altitudes.  People tend to test the Mossie with too much fuel in it and that reduces its climb rates.  For example, HTC's charts are for full fuel (540 gallons @ ~3,000lbs) and four 500lb bombs.  The Mossie also turns slightly better than the Bf110G according to the charts that have been posted recently.

There is no comparison for gun packages.  The Mosquito's is vastly superior for air-to-air work.

[Die Hard]

The Mossie has always climbed slightly better than the Bf110G at low altitudes.  People tend to test the Mossie with too much fuel in it and that reduces its climb rates.  For example, HTC's charts are for full fuel (540 gallons @ ~3,000lbs) and four 500lb bombs.  The Mossie also turns slightly better than the Bf110G according to the charts that have been posted recently.

There is no comparison for gun packages.  The Mosquito's is vastly superior for air-to-air work.

Oh I'd like to see those charts! Can you point me in the right direction?


You seem like the person to ask: Any news on getting those ejector stubs fitted?

[Anaxogoras]

The Mossie also turns slightly better than the Bf110G according to the charts that have been posted recently.

Which charts?  The 110G has a better turn rate and radius than the Mosquito; that was testing both with 50% fuel.