Author Topic: New perks to be implemented (Read 2850 times)

Seeker · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:00:00 PM »

What are perks for?

I thought they were for controlling rare planes, not for adjusting their arena appearance?

However, over and above that, having a free basic model, and a *very cheap* perked "hot" model of each ride would give newbies and the "ACM challenged" (ok, I mean buff drivers) a sense of achievement.

Is there some way of finding out how many perks per sortie the bottom 25% score on average? Could that be a guide line for cheap perk rides?

But perhaps adjusting the hot model so that no perks are scored in it, rather than charging perks for it may be more egalitarian?

J_A_B · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:18:00 PM »

Actually Ammo my post is only as useless as yours.

Lets' perk the P-47--all of them--while we're at it. After all it dives far too well and has too much ammo and we all know what lazers the .50's are. Make the D11 cost 10, the D25 cost 15 and the D30 cost 20.

Oh...wait....you fly the Jug....can't perk that!

I think it's fairly obvious what your TRUE motives are. The only thing that surprises me is you didn't list the Typhoon in with your "want perked" planes. Perhaps you forgot about it, like the G-10.

J_A_B

Karnak · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:31:00 PM »

I understand what you are saying guys, and in many ways I sympathize, speed is, after all, the factor that is truely dominant.

Aircraft like the P-51D and La-7 (my two personal nemesis) do make it much harder to be competitive with your Fw190A-8, (I died twice today in that, both to P-51s, I was working an N1K2 when the second one got me) or Mosquitoes (La-7s mean my death if they don't consent to the HO) but[/b], many people pay for this game for the P-51D, Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9. Is it so imbalanced right now that their fun needs to be diminished?

In this last month, Tour 22, we have more diversity than we have had in a long time, if ever before.

The top killer, the Spitfire MkIX, has only 9.3% of the total kills. In all Tours that I am aware of, prior to 1.08 being released, the top killers always had 15% or more of the total kills.

Here are the top 5 from Tour 22 so far:

Spitfire MkIX: 9.3%
P-51D Mustang: 7.4%
La-7: 5.6%
N1K2-J Shiden-Kai: 5.6% (58 fewer kills than the La-7)
Spitfire MkV: 5.2%

The frequency with which all of those aircraft (except maybe the Spit V) are seen in the MA are actually down from previous Tours.

I think diversity is getting better right now, and that is without perking anything that is free.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

Kingonads · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:34:00 PM »

JAB SHUT UP.

that is all I have to say, other than I like the ideah about perking some planes but I am more for perking late war planes anything after 43-44 it would give newbies something to work for and it would give us old timers a chance to have fun in our favorite rides, but first I would suggest a complete server reset on all perks for everyone.

<S>
Hodo

Vermillion · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:35:00 PM »

*cough* roadkill *cough*

What J_A_B said !

pimpjoe · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2001, 11:47:00 PM »

i have to agree with ammo on this one. and hell i fly the pony and dora almost exclusively. they're killers...why not perk em? the C hog is perked and i beleive that almost nobody fly's it any more since the extra wieght got added to it in 1.08...its about like a jug now as far as the FM goes

Toad · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2001, 12:05:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin:

I don't know if it would work though, because there would always be a "fastest" plane to jump into that could get away from all the other planes

Exactly.

If we're looking for near equality, you're talking about an RPS I think. Not much support for that so, we're trying to achieve the same effect with the perk system instead?

Almost time to pour some beer and have everybody sing

"Perk 'em all
Perk 'em all
The fast and the slow and the small
Perk all the Nikis and C- Hogs in Blue!
Perk anything that can shoot back at you..."

Don't make me go look up the rest of it.

With this system you'll be perking the C-205 before you know it. It's an underated ride.

-ammo- · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2001, 12:25:00 AM »

JAB, just what do you think my "true motive" is? Explain to me why you are hostile to me abouyt this. Enlighten me please.

Do you think we should unperk the ME262? The Tempest? I suppose you dont like the perk system at all?

J_A_B · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:35:00 AM »

Okay Ammo, here goes:

You base your argument on perking certain planes on "fairness". Your idea of fair, however, seems based upon what would make your choice ride more competative.

Why perk the P-51? It doesn't dominate the MA, was mass-produced (not a rare plane), and has a severe weakness in its lack of climb and firepower. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

Why perk the LA7? It doesn't dominate the MA, has a short range and a tiny ammo load for guns that are hard to hit with. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

Why perk the D-9? It is rather under-used in the MA, has crap weapons, and can't turn to save its life. Answer--it outperforms the Jug.

Why perk the G-10? It is uncommon already, without being perked, has a tiny ammo load for guns that are useless over 300 yards, can't maneuver at speed and is generally an expert's plane. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

How is it "fair" to perk the second and third-most common MA planes, yet NOT the #1 most used? Speed is irrevelant--the Chog got perked and it's not very fast compared to a LA7.

My hostility stems from people who can't handle having to fight aircraft that outperform their choice ride, so instead they want to have those planes taken away.

I don't like the LA7. Do you see me begging to have it perked? Nope. I just deal with it. Honestly I don't much like the YAK or TYPHOON or DORA either--but others do and I have no right trying to ruin the game for them, especially for a selfish reason.

As I see it the sole reason for the existance of the perk system is to keep some plane from dominating the MA like the Spit used to in AirWarrior (about 2/3 of everything in the ETO arena was a spit). I'm all for un-perking the Tempest and F4U-4 and 262, provided they don't utterly dominate the MA (of course they would which is why they're perked). Although I was skeptical of the perk system at first, it can hardly be argued that it doesn't serve its function.

Your suggestion of altering the ENY value of some planes is perfectly valid. Proof that ENY does encourage people to use "disadvantaged" planes is the Spit 5. I'm all for increasing the ENY of uncommon planes, like the P-47. You SHOULD be rewarded for flying it, as it is tougher to succeed in a Jug than in a Stang. Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.

J_A_B

Sachs · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:43:00 AM »

Sorry to bust everyone's bubble here but WTF? Why do we need more perk fighters? I can get a kill in just about every plane out there. Do I squeak because OMFG this guy had alt and BnZ me? Spits perk them? Nope they die just as easily as any other plane they turn awesome and they climb very nice and have a respectable speed at alt. Oh thats right this is for the deck grabbers sorry. N1k perk it? Nope. It can turn but it can't run. 51D perk it? You got to be kidding me, glass jaw and turns for crap. Fw190 D-9 perk it? Ok it has speed and climb woohoo turns for crap and cannot out zoom climb a N1K, and it can be run down on the deck by quite a few others. 109 G-10, Hmm a plane with a weak jaw that can be caught that can be out turned and if you put gondolas on seriously hampers its affectiveness. Nope not buying it. I don't even think the La7 should be perked even though IMO opinion it is an awesome MA fighter. All I have to say is grab a plane learn its weaknesses and strengths use them and then come back and squeak and moan about ohh this plane needs to be perked cuz it kills me 9.9 times out of 10. What we have perked is what should stay perked and nothing more added. Pretty soon if this keeps up we all will be flying 38's and 202's and 205's and eatly 109's, oh and JU88's and TBM's sory forgot about those low end products as well. Oh and if speed is the factor perk teh P-51B with its awesome 440 mph top speed, hmm to little ammo not a lot are seen NAh we better not lets squeak about the other ones that are slower and have more ammo. I am done, we do not need nor do we have to have more perk fighters from the core that we allready have.

Sachs · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:50:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B:
Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.

J_A_B

I concur with this exact statement, you posted your's while I was typing mine out. Why squeak about other planes? I used to hate seeing in the air Chog and N1k's and SPits. That was all I saw then it was down to N1k's and Spits. Now I see a diverse well sort of mixture in plane usage. And it is a lot better then what it used to be. When you get hauled down by a Dora driver or a G-10 driver chances are they know wtf they are doing so don't cry wolf. And I am all for reevaluatig the eny value on certian planes and if you would have followed my thread on changing some planes to get more use out of them this would be a more valid thread. Oh and here is that link. http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=002744

Wotan · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:51:00 AM »

It doesn't take any time to get perk points. We oughta have a reason to use what we've gathered.

Some act as if they are spending real money on the things.

8-10 point perk would do little to effect the make up of the main.

I fly the 109g10
I fly 190d9

more then any other. I can get in a 205 or 109g2 and in several sorties earn all the perk points I need fer the next week.

What planes are left to be modeled that should be perked 6 at most?

all i see perking the late war stuff doing is encouraging the use of some planes with a high eny value out there. And there are some damn good planes that get little use.

Ammo made some good points I could post my kills and deaths vrs these ac but its not important. i kill my share of umm.

It aint gold its just some easy to get perks.

since the niki got "adjusted" you dont see it as much and the d11 has virtually disappeared from the arena. But even when the niki was at its hieghts of dweebness it should not have been perked. that goes for the spit as well.

I did notice that the guys against ammos idea mostly fly p51ds

I would imagine how much it would suck to go out and get 5-10 kills in a p51b to get your 8 perks......oh well

-ammo- · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:58:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B:
Okay Ammo, here goes:

You base your argument on perking certain planes on "fairness". Your idea of fair, however, seems based upon what would make your choice ride more competative.

Why perk the P-51? It doesn't dominate the MA, was mass-produced (not a rare plane), and has a severe weakness in its lack of climb and firepower. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

Why perk the LA7? It doesn't dominate the MA, has a short range and a tiny ammo load for guns that are hard to hit with. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

Why perk the D-9? It is rather under-used in the MA, has crap weapons, and can't turn to save its life. Answer--it outperforms the Jug.

Why perk the G-10? It is uncommon already, without being perked, has a tiny ammo load for guns that are useless over 300 yards, can't maneuver at speed and is generally an expert's plane. Answer--it outperforms the Jug

How is it "fair" to perk the second and third-most common MA planes, yet NOT the #1 most used? Speed is irrevelant--the Chog got perked and it's not very fast compared to a LA7.

My hostility stems from people who can't handle having to fight aircraft that outperform their choice ride, so instead they want to have those planes taken away.

I don't like the LA7. Do you see me begging to have it perked? Nope. I just deal with it. Honestly I don't much like the YAK or TYPHOON or DORA either--but others do and I have no right trying to ruin the game for them, especially for a selfish reason.

As I see it the sole reason for the existance of the perk system is to keep some plane from dominating the MA like the Spit used to in AirWarrior (about 2/3 of everything in the ETO arena was a spit). I'm all for un-perking the Tempest and F4U-4 and 262, provided they don't utterly dominate the MA (of course they would which is why they're perked). Although I was skeptical of the perk system at first, it can hardly be argued that it doesn't serve its function.

Your suggestion of altering the ENY value of some planes is perfectly valid. Proof that ENY does encourage people to use "disadvantaged" planes is the Spit 5. I'm all for increasing the ENY of uncommon planes, like the P-47. You SHOULD be rewarded for flying it, as it is tougher to succeed in a Jug than in a Stang. Give people a reason to fly them, WITHOUT destroying the game for others.

J_A_B

JAB, it seems you just assume too much. I dont base my "argument" on fairness, rather on performance. the AC I mentioned have a significant advantage over the rest of the planeset. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I kill alot of these AC, While I am not some uber sim pilot, I do have a knowledge of ACM, and all of the AC's strengths and weaknesses. I dont only fly the jug, check my stats. I am also not worried about dieing to either one of these AC. I assure you I die regularly to all kinds of AC, and I enjoy my AH time nonetheless. You make it out like I have some sort of ego problem. Ask anyone that knows me, it just isnt true. I believe that we are stuck having the perk system, lets use it. Dont try to make this a personal issue, I think this would be a great idea, thats all, nothing more.

Do you belong to a squad? Which one, and what AC/AC's do you enjoy in particular?

Wotan · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2001, 01:59:00 AM »

darn ag (Sachs)

you could pretend to agree with me

actaully the only reason I'm for is to prevent ag going on a 23-0 run in a g10 with just mk108

perk the damn thing stick his arse in a 109g6

J_A_B · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2001, 02:49:00 AM »

"I think the perk system hads merit, if it is used consistently, and fairly."

Apparently you DID say your argument is based upon your idea of "fairness". How is it "fair" to perk anything that out-performs the Jug, regardless of whether they're popular or not?

"the AC I mentioned have a significant advantage over the rest of the planeset."

Uh, they do? So presumably others, like the Spit, have no signifigant advantages? LOL! It is becomming more and more obvious that you only care about how the planes perform in relation to your P-47.

You contradict yourself, because your list of "to be perked" planes is neither "consistent" nor "fair".

"I believe that we are stuck having the perk system, lets use it. "

We are using it, if you haven't noticed. It was created to prevent certain "interesting" planes from dominating the MA, and it does a good job of it. It was NOT created to force a half-arsed RPS upon AH.

Once again--Why not use the ENY value to make "disadvantaged" planes more attractive? it clearly can work, as evided by the popularity of the Spit 5. I even go so far as to say that people who fly stuff like the P-47 DESERVE more points.

"I think this would be a great idea, thats all, nothing more."

I doubt that not at all--it would indeed be great for you. The unfortunate fact is, it would suck a** for a lot of others. As I said before--why not think of something that'll improve the game for you without destroying it for me?

Oh, and WOTAN suggests that perks are so easy to come by that this whole issue is moot. All I can say is he must either play a lot more than I do, or is a much better sim pilot than I am.
For me (and a LOT of others judging by perk plane usage statistics), perking an aircraft--even at 8 points--is effectively removing it from the game.

J_A_B