P-38 kill ratio...out of whack.

[Strip]

Your intial post seems to indicate your more inclined to believe its a flight model bug.

Your statement,"On paper this plane has inferior power to weight, climb rate, and acceration numbers compared to most planes in the MA." is inaccurate.

The P-38 is capable of well over 3,000 FPM climb rates at lower altitudes and weight. Climb rate is a rough indicator of acceleration ability, its certainly not inferior. It has excellent zoom characteristics and counter rotating props help maintain stability. The hp/weight ratio AFAIK ranks in the upper half of all planes in Aces High.

Strip

[BnZs]

This is just friggin' hilarious

Vinkman, the P-38L, which is identical to the J in every way except for being a little better (boosted ailerons and dive flaps) has a much lower k/d ratio. Hmmm, let's put on our thinking caps and try to figure out why...

No, the P-38J/L is not super-impressive as a LW plane going simply by speed, turn, and climb numbers. The P-38's strengths which don't show up on paper are torqueless stability, and a very well placed gun package. And a *very* good over-the-nose view when tracking targets with those guns btw. The wing also looks like it has a high aspect ratio, which could be a help in the E-retention department during maneuvers. The J's particular strength though, are the pilots who fly them.

[oakranger]

pfff, you just need to learn to counter the attack of a P-38.  Start fighting the SAPP tards and you will get better fighting them.

[Vinkman]

The counter is to NOT follow the guy up, stall under him, and allow him to drop on you for the kill.  It's really as simple as that.  The rope fails if the intended victim refuses to be roped...

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

[MjTalon]

So MJTalon are you a self professed good stick?  
Seriously, I assume you fly it regularly, Is this a favorite manuever? Do you use dual throttles? and does manipulating them independently help?  I can't seem to replicate this myself (I am a self professed non-good stick) but I only have a single throttle.

Noooo. 
I suck compared to the rest of the SAPP/ 80th/479th sticks. I'm a novice in their and my own eyes. Check with Guppy, Ack, Shuffler, Del, etc.

[MjTalon]

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

remember, it has two engines for being such a large fighter. Also take into account the P-38 has no torque due to counter rotating props. Therefore, allowing it to go into helo mode when in the vertical.

[Lusche]

The P-38J is a plane favored only by a select few, and flown extremely well. Your analysis is incorrect in assuming that k/d should resemble WW2 levels.

There isn't some bug, more like a statistical bump spurred on by good piloting.

+1


With planes not being part of the MA "mainstream" a small number of dedicated pilots can and will have a huge impact on K/D's. With rare planes like 109F or Hurri I, I have managed to have quite an impact all by myself alone. At times, the 152's K/D rocketed into orbit when a few talented guys where flying it almost exclusively, 3 players alone having about 50% of all kills in it.

[BnZs]

Vink, there is no "secret" technique to the thing. Just good pilots taking advantage of its strengths. The average player could rack up a a higher k/d in the SpitIX or even P-51D,since the P-38 can not fight simply by putting its left vector on most bandits and pulling, and since it can not simply speed out of bad situations

[TequilaChaser]

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

not if you are "Leading" the bandit on your tail to hanging themselves on the "Rope"  not a rookie manuever at all.........a flat turn is a rookie move or diving down/split-s maneuver at the beginning of a fit is a rookie move giving up the advantage......

[mtnman]

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

It's not that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is a rookie/bad move.  It's more that pulling vertical in the wrong situation is a bad move.  Done properly, in the right situation, pulling vertical can be a great move!

The first guy pulling vertical doesn't have to get so slow as to allow closure.  It depends on the situation.

[BnZs]

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

Unlike single engine planes, the 38 can hang until literally 0mph, flop nose down, then go back to flying and tracking for guns *immediately*.

[Vinkman]

Your intial post seems to indicate your more inclined to believe its a flight model bug.


The P-38 is capable of well over 3,000 FPM climb rates at lower altitudes and weight. Climb rate is a rough indicator of acceleration ability, its certainly not inferior. It has excellent zoom characteristics and counter rotating props help maintain stability. The hp/weight ratio AFAIK ranks in the upper half of all planes in Aces High.

Strip

I haven;t checked all the clib rate at various loads. I've jumped in 38's and checked the climb rate. It's not superior to Spits, 109, C205, and many Corsairs. So I will yield to not knowing it percentile status on climb rate, But I have flown C205, and Spits agaist 38s and lost in the same fashion.  

[mtnman]

...more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or falling behind a bandit.

Which is exactly what the P38 pilot is counting on, and (probably) consciously using against you.

It's easy to fool someone using the icon counter.

[Strip]

Your not mis-judging its speed, your mis-judging its energy.

They are related but different, energy level depends on a few factors. 18,000 lbs of mass traveling at 250 mph has more energy than 9,000lbs at the same speed. Of course this is a bit generic but it gives you an idea. Many dont realize it but one of the best vertical zoom planes in the game is the A-20. Pound for pound it will convert airspeed into altitude better than near every other plane. On paper it looks like a mundane twin engine bomber, much like the B-38!

What you need to realize is the P-38 is very good at converting its energy into altitude.

Strip

[TequilaChaser]

I haven;t checked all the clib rate at various loads. I've jumped in 38's and checked the climb rate. It's not superior to Spits, 109, C205, and many Corsairs. So I will yield to not knowing it percentile status on climb rate, But I have flown C205, and Spits agaist 38s and lost in the same fashion.  

have you played AH for more than ayear? have you flown yor particularly favorite plane from 6 months to a year none stop, and learned it through and through?

just last night, I was in an F4U-1 and had a Ta-152 trying to rope me, then along comes another Bishop in a P38-L....I played my cards right to where I knew the Ta-152 was gonna stall out before me when he went vertical and that the P38-L was gonna stall out right below me roughly 800 to 600 out...they both got smoking engines in the same vertical manuever they tried to set me up on........kind of funny, but was well worth the adrenaline rush to boot