Thoughts on Damage Model

[OOZ662]

Juggling the AHBBS and four threads on /b/, plus a nutter on YIM. It's tiring on the mind.

[Nemisis]

lol, you DO multitask.

[Flipperk]

I disagree and see no reason that the USN's numbers are exaggerated.

And on that note ill be leaving this argument

  gentlemen

[Nemisis]

see ya flipp

[rabbidrabbit]

There is nothing unreasonable about asking that some damage effect is incurred by non critical hits however, all this has no purpose unless there is intent towards upgrading the damage model.

[Nemisis]

Do you mean how damage is delt, how it affects the A/C or GV, or change what damage is delt to?

[FYB]

I, unfortunately, must disagree with my squadie. I was flying in a P-51 today, (By the way, i haven't seen many of the squad members on) and i shot an F6F with only 50 rounds from my 50. cal and it blasted the wing away. I would prefer [2000] .303, than [850] 50., and [310] 20mm.

Why? Proof... I was flying an Mk I Spitfire and i managed to (unbelievably, i got VERY lucky not being noticed) put 200 .303's into the cockpit and engine. Plane went down, if you remember me, I'm sorry and good flying!   

[Nemisis]

I, unfortunately, must disagree with my squadie. I was flying in a P-51 today, (By the way, i haven't seen many of the squad members on) and i shot an F6F with only 50 rounds from my 50. cal and it blasted the wing away. I would prefer [2000] .303, than [850] 50., and [310] 20mm.

Why? Proof... I was flying an Mk I Spitfire and i managed to (unbelievably, i got VERY lucky not being noticed) put 200 .303's into the cockpit and engine. Plane went down, if you remember me, I'm sorry and good flying!   

Yes, but you can do that with 20 or so 20mm rounds. And of course 200 rounds to the cocpit and engine kills something. You had to use 200rds while around 20 20mm's would have been enough unless they changed it, it takes 12 .303's to equal the damage of 1 20mm round.

[Greziz]

To put stuff simply I believe the damage model is in need of a small upgrade or a massive overhaul. May the gods of frames per second shine upon me when the dmg model is made anew for all to bow too and if that number be under 32 then I shall sacrifice my 512 video card to the mayan sun gods for a new 1gig amd video card!

[Boozeman]

I hope Mr. Shaw doesn't mind me sharing this table from his book, but he presented a very clear definition of gun lethality in chapter 1 with the following results. I hope this helps some of you discuss the relative lethality between machine guns and cannons.

(Image removed from quote.)

Since that's figured for each gun I think a rough estimate would look something like this;

• 8 x .30 cal= 13.6
• 4 x .50cal= 25.6
• 6 x .50cal= 38.4
• 2 x 20mm & 4 x .30cal= 38.6
• 2 x 20mm & 2 x .50cal= 44.6
• 4 x 20mm= 63.6

I think Mr. Shaw ignored the HE blast effect of many cannon rounds in his equation (unless of course those are all AP but in that case this is not a good reference) which would make significant additional damage.

[Baumer]

He didn't ignore the blast effect he states very clearly that the explosive power of cannon rounds is very significant, however in this equation he is not counting it. So as a baseline comparison (not counting the explosive power of the cannon rounds) you can still see that cannon rounds are much more lethal than machine gun rounds.

Think of it this way,

4 x 20mm cannons = 9.9375 x .50cal machine guns, and that's not including the explosive power of the cannon rounds.

[Nemisis]

He didn't ignore the blast effect he states very clearly that the explosive power of cannon rounds is very significant, however in this equation he is not counting it. So as a baseline comparison (not counting the explosive power of the cannon rounds) you can still see that cannon rounds are much more lethal than machine gun rounds.

Think of it this way,

4 x 20mm cannons = 9.9375 x .50cal machine guns, and that's not including the explosive power of the cannon rounds.

Yes, but in real life, the US found that the 20mm cannon was approxamitly 3 times as deadly as the browning .50. That would make it 3 cannons + 9 .50's. IDK it its like that in the game though...

[Anaxogoras]

and that's not including the explosive power of the cannon rounds.

Right, that's probably why others felt the information was wrong or misleading.

[grizz441]

If only some more people who wish for a more complex damage system had flown Air Warrior.   

[Anaxogoras]

If only some more people who wish for a more complex damage system had flown Air Warrior.   

I've heard stories.

The surprising thing is that the kind of damage aircraft can take in AH is very similar to what HT's Warbirds was 10 years ago.  The difference is that the parts you can lose are divided up into smaller pieces.  For example, the wing was one piece.  Critical damage to one vstab on, e.g. a P-38, caused both to fall off.  The elevator surfaces were one piece, so you couldn't lose one and not the other.  There were no engine fires and no radiator leaks.  I can't think of any more differences.