Mirrors?

[Shuffler]

Mirrors can be misleading...

[Karnak]

According to a Spitfire pilot from the Battle of Britain, a Bf109E in firing range was about the width of a - in the mirror.  He said it was useless.  In AH that - would be more like a . when it was in firing range.

[boomerlu]

According to a Spitfire pilot from the Battle of Britain, a Bf109E in firing range was about the width of a - in the mirror.  He said it was useless.  In AH that - would be more like a . when it was in firing range.

Wouldn't that be due to how much magnification the mirror provides? Seems to me as this is a tradeoff as with ANY FoV zoom.

More zoom => better detail, but less spatial area covered. Less zoom => less detail, but bigger area covered. So it sounds like the Spit mirrors simply chose the low zoom/low detail method. I guess this is an additional area we'd have to look into and/or adjust when picking mirrors.

[Karnak]

Wouldn't that be due to how much magnification the mirror provides? Seems to me as this is a tradeoff as with ANY FoV zoom.

More zoom => better detail, but less spatial area covered. Less zoom => less detail, but bigger area covered. So it sounds like the Spit mirrors simply chose the low zoom/low detail method. I guess this is an additional area we'd have to look into and/or adjust when picking mirrors.

The more you "zoom" the less the field of view and the lower the odds of the attacking aircraft appearing in the mirror.

[boomerlu]

The more you "zoom" the less the field of view and the lower the odds of the attacking aircraft appearing in the mirror.

Yes, exactly. The tradeoff is it's harder to actually see the attacking plane when you are zoomed out (i.e., your comment on how the 109s looked like a -).

[saantana]

I would like to see the mirror atleast as an option for my plane.
Maybe this post should go in the wishlist forum.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yes, exactly. The tradeoff is it's harder to actually see the attacking plane when you are zoomed out (i.e., your comment on how the 109s looked like a -).

Even better would be if you could choose the zoom. It'd be yet another tactical tradeoff the user could make.

[boomerlu]

Even better would be if you could choose the zoom. It'd be yet another tactical tradeoff the user could make.

This is exactly how I envision the mirror system working.

[Shuffler]

All this mirror talk reminds me of a story.

A man was sealed in a room with no doors or windows. All he had was a table with a mirror on it. He was actually able to escape when he looked into the mirror to see what he saw.... took the saw and cut the table in half. Put the two halves together to make a (w)hole and he was able to climb right through it.

[PJ_Godzilla]

This is exactly how I envision the mirror system working.

Uh-oh... I sense a techno-geek with a resonant view to my own. This could lead to a discussion that outsiders would entitle "Boron versus Drone-O" in which two techno-geeks attempt to impress the rest of the world with their talent for ending insomnia.

BTW, with regard to that "other topic", I'll just say that it's clear from the log that many in the log needed a little more explanation and that takes time and pixels. It's still a sound clientele and a bunch of pretty good guys, mostly pretty sharp if not necessarily trained in the specific bookwork - and many of the better flyers probably aren't (and I'm not one of 'em).

Speaking of which and at the threat of hijacking the thread: there are no women here. I don't care. I'm married. I go here to get away from the henhouse. For some of the other guys - especially the young 'uns, though, spending a lot of time on AHII might be something akin to enrolling in the monastery.

Ah, well, they can go to the bars and brag about their kills. That should impress 'em. Wait 'til I'm retirement age. My pilot skills will go through the roof.

[The Fugitive]

Do a search, HT already said it's not worth the trouble of coding it. The hit on graphics for such a small and quick view just isn't worth it.

[boomerlu]

Uh-oh... I sense a techno-geek with a resonant view to my own. This could lead to a discussion that outsiders would entitle "Boron versus Drone-O" in which two techno-geeks attempt to impress the rest of the world with their talent for ending insomnia.

. Check out The Big Bang Theory (TV Show) some time.

BTW, with regard to that "other topic", I'll just say that it's clear from the log that many in the log needed a little more explanation and that takes time and pixels. It's still a sound clientele and a bunch of pretty good guys, mostly pretty sharp if not necessarily trained in the specific bookwork - and many of the better flyers probably aren't (and I'm not one of 'em).

I take it this is about my PM to you? What I'm saying is, it seemed like the only important issue is where CL of the wings lies. Take out the elevators and then only the wings generate lift. And if CL is in front of CG, nose will pitch up (all fulcrum-like), which is a pretty basic principle. The issue could be very easily boiled down to one paragraph if everybody knew that CL of the wings was in front of CG and it would be pretty intuitive to boot by simply describing a basic fulcrum.

The discussion could have been cut much shorter if Hitech (or anybody else with expert knowledge) had stated the CL of the wings early. I wasn't trying to say anything else by my PM, certainly not trying to criticize anybody's lack of knowledge or God forbid pilot skill.

Speaking of which and at the threat of hijacking the thread: there are no women here. I don't care. I'm married. I go here to get away from the henhouse. For some of the other guys - especially the young 'uns, though, spending a lot of time on AHII might be something akin to enrolling in the monastery.

Ok, I'm starting to the impression that we are talking about completely different things now. I'm confused. Oh well.

[PJ_Godzilla]

. Check out The Big Bang Theory (TV Show) some time.
I take it this is about my PM to you? What I'm saying is, it seemed like the only important issue is where CL of the wings lies. Take out the elevators and then only the wings generate lift. And if CL is in front of CG, nose will pitch up (all fulcrum-like), which is a pretty basic principle. The issue could be very easily boiled down to one paragraph if everybody knew that CL of the wings was in front of CG and it would be pretty intuitive to boot by simply describing a basic fulcrum.

The discussion could have been cut much shorter if Hitech (or anybody else with expert knowledge) had stated the CL of the wings early. I wasn't trying to say anything else by my PM, certainly not trying to criticize anybody's lack of knowledge or God forbid pilot skill.
Ok, I'm starting to the impression that we are talking about completely different things now. I'm confused. Oh well.

I was just digressing at the end there because I'd referred to a "pretty good bunch of GUYS". Then I realized, there are no women here.I once tatered a Mossie driver with the "Pink Leather Aces" squad but my guess is, that was a he. What's up with that squad name, anyway?

Otherwise, I mistook your point on the center of lift. Generally, the entire ac center of lift is aft of the cg, that latter generally balanced at about quarter chord, statically. Indeed and as you state, blow the tail off and it moves to roughly wing c of l. But it was clear that a couple of the contributors didn't know how to do even a force balance - consider some of the murk around whether the horistab was producing negative or positive lift.  

The other distraction there: I don't know about you but, for me, it was the first time thinking about what happens to the a/c when you blow a big chunk off it. It took us all a while to get there. In retrospect, it seems dead simple. We could repeat this thought experiment with a number of other scenarios. I think we've already covered the half-a-wing one side or both scenario. What about the vertstab? It's far less common an occurrence.

yer pal,
 Boron

[boomerlu]

I've talked to two women in AH so far. One's Fiona and the other's deafchick. On top of that, I've also heard of Barbie, who flies with Loose Deuce. Pink Leather Aces hahaha, never heard of them.

Yup, we have quite the sausage fest here. My university was this way too, though not nearly as bad.

Re: CL discussion. Force balance or not, all we have to say is that CG is the "fulcrum point" - if we're pushing up at CG, the aircraft will not pitch up or down. This can be demonstrated with examples among household objects - when you balance anything on your fingertip, you are matching the CG along the horizontal. While holding the object balanced, push up to see what CL does. Very simple example, very intuitive, and close to how I imagine complex problems in my head. I once explained resonance frequency to a friend by using a swing set as an example.

Drone-o

[boomerlu]

We could repeat this thought experiment with a number of other scenarios. I think we've already covered the half-a-wing one side or both scenario. What about the vertstab? It's far less common an occurrence.

I routinely get my VStab blown off! . Well in that case, we would be forced to use ailerons to counteract engine torque. But since ailerons naturally produce some yaw rate, the aircraft would rapidly acquire a large horizontal AoA. This is assuming the aircraft is geometrically symmetric along the plane defined by the VStab. If not, any asymmetries would be enhanced and would probably also contribute to the yaw. The result: a flat spin, with some rolling motion due to torque. I think that agrees pretty well with combat experience in AH.