Author Topic: Verdict on the P-47M?  (Read 6962 times)

Offline bj229r

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2009, 12:51:19 PM »
Those charts dont tell me how big of a pig the 47M is in the vert.  All widewing has done is posted numbers, they are what they are, and dont really mean much in a lowspeed fight.. again the point im trying to make.  I guess if you care how fast your plane is at 15k, more power to ya. ;)
Add a fourth, maybe a third of the ability you remember a D40 having....not remotely in K4 territory, but certainly less of a hindrance than before
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Offline Lazerr

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2009, 12:59:00 PM »
Add a fourth, maybe a third of the ability you remember a D40 having....not remotely in K4 territory, but certainly less of a hindrance than before

Yup.. and once someone is able to pull above you, all the jug can do is stay low and turn, praying the following shot is a miss.

d11/d40 are the beast. :D

Offline bj229r

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2009, 01:36:58 PM »
Few options if on the deck...if you have alt to give up, get em to follow well into the 400's, jug tons more nimble at that speed than a lot of the planes which might be chasing you, like 38...you get one good chance to reverse them (F4 being @#%%@#%@# notable exception)
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Offline nimble

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2009, 04:21:13 PM »
My impressions so far vs the N:

The M feels much more floaty, the N much more linear
The N I feel is better suited for pure BnZ
The M and N are about equal in E fights as long as you are more gentle on the controls if in an M)
The M definately turns better at high speeds, but burns off E quicker because of it, almost deceptively so

I'd take up the N over the M for pure lone-wolf flying and working the edges of a horde
I'd take up the M over the N for knife fighting
If I was in a situation that I needed to cause an overshoots, I'd rather be in an N
If I was caught slow vs more than one con above 6000ft I'd prefer the N, below 6000ft I'd prefer the M
I'd rather rolling scissor in the N than M
If I was forced to stall fight, I'd rather be in the M
If I was hunting buffs, I'd much rather be in an N, it's more linear flying makes it much easier to line up those 800-1k cockpit shots or wing root shots on b24s

Survivability IMO goes to the N; the way it handles helps you conserve E much easier
For someone who wants to start flying jugs I'd tell them to start with the N, it's much better at teaching you the limitations of a jug than the M.
I'd suggest the M for folks more experienced in the 47 planeset

In the end though, they are both jugs. You have to really be conscious of your E state and keep your SA up. People tend to dive on low jugs almost as much as a 110 or similar plane for an easy kill. 47 series is a set you need to fly with some patience because once wep runs out you are in trouble if caught slow.

It feels closest to me(please be gentle SAPPers) that the M is to the 38g as the N is to the 38L.


Overall I am very, very happy with the addition of a new jug, has been my main ride for years now and I have no regrets about keeping my account active even if I stopped playing for 6+ months at a time. HTC really showed the jug pilots some love and it's muchly appreciated!
 
Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2009, 07:06:18 PM »
Patently incorrect.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273328.msg3420542.html#msg3420542

Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft. The fuel load is as I described it; normal load.

In the case of the P-47M, it appears that the climb chart represents empty aux tank and standard 8 guns, 267 rounds each (normal ammo load).


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline fyvsix

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM »
The M wins over the N based on potential skins alone!  :D
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2009, 08:29:25 PM »
The M wins over the N based on potential skins alone!  :D
yah...nuthin like flying silver plane on green background
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2009, 05:31:43 AM »
yah...nuthin like flying silver plane on green background


Well, if you count out flying with a large red icon hanging on top of ya.
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Offline Timofei

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2009, 09:42:47 AM »
Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft. The fuel load is as I described it; normal load.

This is not generally correct either. Checked a few planes, using AH's own weight data:
F4U1-A: Full main tanks, empty wing tanks
P-51D: Full main tanks, empty aux. tank
P-47D-40 and P-47N: Both w/full internal fuel, the latter with full ammo also
Bf109K-4: Main tank about 82% full.
Proverbs 15:17 "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred herewith."

Offline Wolfala

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2009, 10:47:40 AM »
My verdict:

First time I took it up, I got 8 kills. Second time I took it up, 7 kills. Third time I took it up, 9 kills. I'm pretty good in 47s, but zero time in type, I was impressed.

I still take the N if I plan on hitting AAA from 3km out to make life easier, or hunting buffs with rockets, or just generally wanting to raise hell for an hour or so.

The M, like others if I am just purely going out for fighter sweep or running intercept and need to get up and somewhere quickly.

I have very few problems in the type unless you screw up or get jumped by someone with 10k advantage in a Spit 8 or something that can miracle itself to your ass.


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Offline Timofei

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2009, 11:27:15 AM »
Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft.

So, which way is it ?
Think real hard.
Proverbs 15:17 "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred herewith."

Offline Widewing

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2009, 06:48:49 PM »
So, which way is it ?
Think real hard.

I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2009, 08:53:23 PM »
I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?


Heh.

Thanks for taking the time to investigate and publish the 47M data, Widewing, I think most of us appreciate it.

- oldman

Offline Timofei

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2009, 11:30:41 AM »
I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?

My post was rather rhetoric. As you seem to be regarded as the "WW2-aircraft-know-it-all" in this board, I was curious to know if you are a man to admit you are wrong even in this minor issue. The answer seems to be "no".

Regards from a lowly parolee.
Proverbs 15:17 "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred herewith."

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Verdict on the P-47M?
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2009, 02:53:17 PM »
Well I did my own testing with 1/4 fuel and the light 8 gun load. WEP climb from standing stop to 10,000'.

P-47M-2.49 seconds. P-47D40-2.59. P-47N-3.06. P-47D25-3.10. P-47D11-3.18.

P-38J-2.48. F4U-4-2.41. Hellcat-2.58. Brewster-3.28.  F4U-1-3.29. P-51D-3.06 seconds.

Others were Yak9U-2.45 seconds. Spit16-2.19. 109K4-2.19. LA7-2.35. FW190D9-2.42.

For what its worth. Obviously 1/4 tank of gas means one thing for some planes and another thing for others. Some you would never dream of loading 1/4 for. Besides climb rates change at ALT.'s, tho most action is 10k and under in the game...ect

But to put the P-47M into perspective lets look at the K/Ds of the P51D last tour, which was 54,178, and so far this tour 41,934. Total P-47 usage last tour was 22,137 K/Ds and so far this tour 49,627.

Who knows what all this means and who knows how many Pony drivers are now finding more P-47 bliss. How much is simply "new version excitement"? Well who knows at this point?

I do still think the "M" is going to bring a lot more furballers into the Jug family.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"