Life after Death

[Reaper90]

No it does not. However, there are many unexplainable experiences/phenomenon, but that doesn't mean they're the ghosts of dead people. It's just that we've not figured out what's causing them yet.

But I thought based on this

Sorry guys... Geomagnetic fields + sensitive temporal lobe = ghosts.

you had already figured it out!

[LYNX]

Someone PM'ed me a few days back with a message of a similar experience as my own.  He's gave me permission to paste it here.   Very interesting short read. 
 

Lynx/Steve,

Read your thread with much interest.  I had a similair experience back in November 1998 the day after I had my kidney removed.  The doctors were pumping too many liquids into my body (blood, anitbiotics, TPN, etc.) for my system to handle, and my lungs filled with fluid and I "died" for awhile. My mom was sitting with me at the time, and said my last words were "my lungs are gurgling".
In a nutshell, I went to the "light" (in upper corner of the room), felt and undescribable feeling of peace which kept increasing the closer I got to the end of the "tunnel."  As I got closer to the end, I was able to recognize people that I knew that had passed away before me.  Just as I got to the end and was about to leave the tunnel and enter the "place", i had a brief sensation of reversing direction, then no memories at all until I came to in the ICU a week or so later.

Like on of your other posters stated, my doc tried to tell me that it was my body shutting down, etc., until I related to him things that were happening in and around my room during the time I was "gone."

[Modas]

This is an interesting thread.  I’m not sure if I believe there is something on the other side or not.  My sister however, has no doubt.  She is an intensive care nurse.  A couple of years ago, she was caring for an elderly woman who was dying from something.  My sister really looked after this person, more so then just checking her vitals.  My sister (when she’d get a free moment) would stop in to just talk to this patient and they would spend a good deal of time talking about my sisters dogs.

One night after her shift, my sister had a dream of this patient telling her to wake up, that one of her dogs needed help.  She woke up and her pitbull had gotten tangled up in the bedsheets somehow and was being strangled.  The pitbull was basically dead, but my sister did CPR and mouth to snoot resuscitation and saved it.  You probably already know where this is going.  When my sister got to the hospital the next day for her shift, the patient had died during the night shift.

She also swears that my grandfather paid her a visit right after he died and kissed her goodbye while she was in bed (day before the funeral).  She was fairly young (six) and wasn’t at the funeral.  But when she was asked about it, she described the suit and tie he was wearing which matched what he was wearing at the funeral home.

Is there something on the other side?  I don’t know.  I personally just as soon not find out.  I plan on living forever.  So far so good.

[Die Hard]

you had already figured it out!

I can't take all the credit for that. There is this guy up in Ontario that's been working on it for 15 years and is able to produce ghosts...

[indy007]

I'd like a link to this please.  The reason being I'm open minded about it all but I have to say those in the medical practise are taught to be self assertive.  They do, after all, have to make some "fine line" judgement calls.  I'm not saying their wrong just that they can be over bearing with their assertions.

As you can asscertain I'm a believer of the after life but would like to know how "medicine" can messure what some of us would perceive as the soul or spirit... of ones self being.

I'm not down with the supernatural. No ghosts, no gods, etc. I think there's an explanation for everything that can show real world results and be repeatedly tested. I think we're marching towards that, but unfortunately there's no real funding for it. It's not considered something import from a medicinal perspective. It has to feed off the spare time of what's considered more important in brain activity detection and MRI advances.. the more important stuff being viewed as direct medicinal and clinical applications to prevent people from even getting near the NDE to begin with.

There's a lot of work on the subject since the mid 70s. In the 80s it was DMT. A guy proved you could trigger an NDE in some people with a dose, and get many others to experience symptoms from a "classical NDE". DMT is produced in your body by the pineal gland. Various, peer-reviewed journals have published studies of the experiences. A prominent feature of that is that they are distinctly cultural. If you're from an industrialized, Western country your experience will likely be Christian. If you're a Indian hindu, you'll likely see Yamraj. It's a construct of your culture, not necessarily supernatural.

The most recent theory to carry significant interest is Birk Engmann's work. It's about how the Sensory Autonomic System takes over while your brain is short circuiting from lack of blood flow once you've hit the clinically dead state. A particularly interesting aspect of this is that similar things to an NDE can be made to happen in computer neural networks by massively killing off neurons.

Engmann, Birk: Near- death Experiences: A review on the thesis of pathoclisis, neurotransmitter abnormalities, and psychological aspects. MMW-Fortschr.Med.Nr.51-52/2008(150.Jg.)p.42-43. PMID: 19156957

"Virtual Input Phenomena" Within the Death of a Simple Pattern Associator, Neural Networks, 8(1), 55–65

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html (Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences (2003) (Updated 2008))

Lots of peer-reviewed works referenced at the bottom of that link.

[Reaper90]

My question would be "how do all the medical/scientific" explanations account for perfectly fit, healthy living people seeing apparitions/ghosts? I don't think my nephew cares about what kind of NDE's you can simulate with whatever drugs, all he knows is the man in the green hat used to smile at him during the night.

And I heard the footsteps, as did both my brothers, mom and dad. Whether you or anyone else disbelieve or not means zero to me - I know what I know from what I've seen, heard, and felt. I'm sure the others who have had such experiences feel similarly.

 

[indy007]

My question would be "how do all the medical/scientific" explanations account for perfectly fit, healthy living people seeing apparitions/ghosts? I don't think my nephew cares about what kind of NDE's you can simulate with whatever drugs, all he knows is the man in the green hat used to smile at him during the night.

And I heard the footsteps, as did both my brothers, mom and dad. Whether you or anyone else disbelieve or not means zero to me - I know what I know from what I've seen, heard, and felt. I'm sure the others who have had such experiences feel similarly.

 

Pretty simple. Anybody can hallucinate. "Vids or it didn't happen" 

[Reaper90]

lol, OK.  

[DREDger]

Some of these posts are downright spooky.

[ink]

good write up Lynx!!

I think you were hallucinating from the pain meds.

and yes I do believe in an "after life" but that is just it, its after life, you were still alive so you did not see the "afterlife"
  but trust me you will we all will, whether we want to believe it or not.

I have been on pain meds and hallucinated me teeth off, not like an "acid trip' but real Hallucinations  similar to what you speak of just different, saw people that were dead and crazy crap that I thought was real.

your writing is very good BTW

[Angus]

No it does not. However, there are many unexplainable experiences/phenomenon, but that doesn't mean they're the ghosts of dead people. It's just that we've not figured out what's causing them yet. Just like thunder and lightning is no longer Thor getting snippy with his hammer.

You mean Thor impersonating a slow walking person without shoes less than 2 feet away from several people's ears.
I was un-religious back then. That period spoiled it for me as well as so many other things that happened later. Can post a few.

[LYNX]

I'm not down with the supernatural. No ghosts, no gods, etc. I think there's an explanation for everything that can show real world results and be repeatedly tested. I think we're marching towards that, but unfortunately there's no real funding for it. It's not considered something import from a medicinal perspective. It has to feed off the spare time of what's considered more important in brain activity detection and MRI advances.. the more important stuff being viewed as direct medicinal and clinical applications to prevent people from even getting near the NDE to begin with.

There's a lot of work on the subject since the mid 70s. In the 80s it was DMT. A guy proved you could trigger an NDE in some people with a dose, and get many others to experience symptoms from a "classical NDE". DMT is produced in your body by the pineal gland. Various, peer-reviewed journals have published studies of the experiences. A prominent feature of that is that they are distinctly cultural. If you're from an industrialized, Western country your experience will likely be Christian. If you're a Indian hindu, you'll likely see Yamraj. It's a construct of your culture, not necessarily supernatural.

The most recent theory to carry significant interest is Birk Engmann's work. It's about how the Sensory Autonomic System takes over while your brain is short circuiting from lack of blood flow once you've hit the clinically dead state. A particularly interesting aspect of this is that similar things to an NDE can be made to happen in computer neural networks by massively killing off neurons.

Engmann, Birk: Near- death Experiences: A review on the thesis of pathoclisis, neurotransmitter abnormalities, and psychological aspects. MMW-Fortschr.Med.Nr.51-52/2008(150.Jg.)p.42-43. PMID: 19156957

"Virtual Input Phenomena" Within the Death of a Simple Pattern Associator, Neural Networks, 8(1), 55–65

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html (Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences (2003) (Updated 2008))

Lots of peer-reviewed works referenced at the bottom of that link.

There is some interesting stuff in the link but I don't set any importance to what a westerner sees as opposed to an Asian or a cargo cultist.  Surely their experience would have facets that are known to them.  It would be odd if a western saw a jungle terrain or Vishnu.  The part that intrigues me but didn't happen in my experience is the tunnel effect being a westerners thing.  Whys that?  We don't have a cultural or religious disposition for the tunnel of light.

Also some of the collection of NDE stories were mixed up with frightening experiences.  Where the subject wasn't or needed resuscitating.  There were also some cherry picked stories in there seemingly to prove a point.  As a motorcyclist I've experienced many near misses and a few hits    Twice had the sensation of the world going in slow motion.  I've put that down to the brain working double quick time to give you the best survival option to take....strange thing.  That kind of thing isn't a Near Death Experience.  It's darn scary for sure but it's not laying there with your heart and resporation stopped.

There most defiantly is food for thought in your link and thanks for posting but I'll stick with my belief for now.  Medicine is a great thing but they still know so very little.  When we think of ourselves many of us think of the soul or the spirit.  The body being it's receptacle.  Measuring the receptacle is one thing.  Measuring the spirit is another.

[LYNX]

good write up Lynx!!

I think you were hallucinating from the pain meds.

and yes I do believe in an "after life" but that is just it, its after life, you were still alive so you did not see the "afterlife"
  but trust me you will we all will, whether we want to believe it or not.

I have been on pain meds and hallucinated me teeth off, not like an "acid trip' but real Hallucinations  similar to what you speak of just different, saw people that were dead and crazy crap that I thought was real.

your writing is very good BTW

Thanks for the writing complement.  The writing bit was 3/4 of me post.  I just chose to write about a very personal experience.  As for that experience I am aware of  hallucinations from meds and recreational hallucinations.  Make way for the mushroom and all that.  There's a world of difference from being off your tits and a very lucid experience.  As a 12 year old my NDE is, without prompting, a standard type package.  Besides if it was pain meds I wouldn't have been in so much pain     and your right...we'll get there in the end.   

[CountD90]

Very nice write up. I must say that I do believe in the "other place". I have experienced the passing shadow for a few months after my grandfather died when I was 10. What really got my believing was a story my mom told me about my aunt back when my parents were dating, and one my aunt told me of my little cousin which happened a little over a year ago.

From what I've been told, when my aunt was younger(mid-teen i think) she used to see ghosts. A few months after my parents started dating, my aunt told my mom that every now and then she could see the "figure" of an old lady following my mom around sort of watching over her. My mom how always believed in ghosts and the such ask my aunt to describe what this old lady looked like. My mom told me that my aunt described her grandmother to almost every detail. Mind you my aunt has never seen my moms grandmother and she had passed away years earlier. Since that day my mom is a firm believer that the spirits, or what ever you want to call them, of your loved ones do watch over you.

Another crazy story was one that my aunt, from the previous story, told me. We were having a family get together for my 18th birthday, June of 2008. My aunt and I were talking about how much we missed my grandfather because something came up that reminded me of him. She then told me how my cousin said that she saw and talked to him. She said that my grandmother was taking care of my cousin a few weeks earlier and that my grandmother heard my cousin taking to someone. So my grandmother walks into my cousin's room and asked who she was talking too, because nobody was in the house but them two. My cousin replied, I was talking to Ayo(i-yo), which was the name I gave out grandfather when I was little because I couldn't pronounce Abuelo(spanish for grandfather). My grandmother had an emotional breakdown and when my aunt asked why she would pretend to talk to Ayo, my cousin swore she wasn't pretending that he really was there. From what I know this wasn't the first time she has seen him.

The craziest part about it though, is that my little cousin has never seen our grandfather other than a handful of pictures. My cousin was born 3 months premature and while that was happening my grandfather was in the same hospital dying from prostate cancer. After my grandfather passed away due to heart failure my baby cousin started showing signs of her health improving. My family believes that my grandfather died so that his grand daughter can take his place on earth, and from the story my aunt told me I believe that my grandfather is my cousin guardian angel of sorts....

[Die Hard]

You mean Thor impersonating a slow walking person without shoes less than 2 feet away from several people's ears.
I was un-religious back then. That period spoiled it for me as well as so many other things that happened later. Can post a few.

How do you hear a slow walking person without shoes? How do you identify the sound as a "person". Why do you think it was a ghost instead of say a goblin or a Predator? (though I guess you'd notice the eyes!)

No... That would be silly.