the not so studly Mustang

[jmccaul]

Hey hristo i see you arguing alot on this board which you are certainly adept at but you should really do what your best at 1v1   duels and challenge these american P51 punks to duel. Teach them some respect    

P.S. - you know me from the h2h ladder under a different handle (clue - i'm the spit dweeb you so enjoy shooting down)

To the rest don't get to het up i'm not being serious.    

[SnakeEyes]

Or, better yet, he could actually investigate what we're saying.  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Hristo]

Nath, that's my favourite story from Shaw's book.

Too bad that Jagdflieger missed  



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Hristo,
I/JG 51

Jagdgeschwader 51  Mölders

[SnakeEyes]

Actually, not long after that, John Godfrey lost an engine strafing an airfield, bailed, and was captured.  Once many of the LW Experten were lost during the early months of 1944, low level AA fire was a much bigger threat than the typical LW pilot.

Unfortunately, John Godfrey's biggest battle was one that he couldn't win... ALS caught up with John in 1957

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 11-13-1999).]

[Hristo]

John Godfrey is not the issue.

Dora is just a beautiful plane, and should kick that P-51.

When I asked for Dora, I was inspired by the mentioned fight. 190A-8 can't really give much trouble to smart flown P-51.


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Hristo,
I/JG 51

Jagdgeschwader 51  Mölders



[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 11-13-1999).]

[Nath-BDP]

Too bad Godfrey's guns jammed.

 

 

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1./Jagdgeshwader 51 "Mölders"

[Nath-BDP]

Not realy, I would say the P51 and Dora are even, the 51 is faster and has 4lb/sq ft less wing loading compared to the Dora, but it can climb faster.

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1./Jagdgeshwader 51 "Mölders"

[jmccaul]

SnakeEyes :
I will have no part in promoting any sort of intelligent, civil debate on this or any other flight sim related UBB board. Frankly you sicken me.

If you would excuse me i'm off to bait some badgers.  

[SnakeEyes]

Which Dora are we speaking about?  The 700 that rolled off the assembly lines?  The 500 that actually made it to frontline units?  The 400 that were actually flown in combat?  The 300 that survived more than a mission or two?  The.... well.... you get my point.    

To be honest, I'm for modeling the Dora, as well as a slew of other late war aircraft... some of which a Dora pilot wouldn't be too pleased to encounter (like the P-47M, which did see combat with the 56th FG in Europe).

I think its max speed was something like 470 IAS at 30K.  

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"SnakeEyes"
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 11-14-1999).]

[Hristo]

 

Which Dora are we speaking about? The 700 that rolled off the assembly lines? The 500 that actually made it to frontline units? The 400 that were actually flown in combat? The 300 that survived more than a mission or two? The.... well.... you get my point.

Good thing you stopped there. You would enter negative numbers if you went into how many Doras were even refueled.

 

To be honest, I'm for modeling the Dora, as well as a slew of other late war aircraft...

So, you have been dishonest before ?

Concerning Dora modeling, don't get me wrong. I am not asking for Dora because it would be uber to P-51D. It won't. In fact, I believe that would be the most balanced matchup in AH, and thus very interesting. Number of Doras available should be still be significant to the number of fighter planes LW could put up in early 45 (just my opinion, I am out of history books     )

IMHO, P-51D would have turn advantage, and speed at some alts. Those advantages would be even better the higher the fight. Also, I think it would accelerate better in dives (but only marginally, I think). Of course, there would be fuel advantage too, very important in AH.
Dora, on the other hand, would have better E income. Climb, but also acceleration, pretty important thing (109G-10 acceleretion started this thread, I believe   ) And maybe it would be faster on the deck, but I don't know that for sure.

As for P-47M, think about it. It might be 'anything goes' approach, and then LW pilots would have every right to ask for Me 262 and Me 163 (just look at that tail to the left on that Dora picture Nath posted). But, please don't get into the uber planes debate, seen in other thread.

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Hristo,
I/JG 51

Jagdgeschwader 51  Mölders

BTW, Snake Eyes, what is your handle in AH ?  



[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 11-14-1999).]

[Nath-BDP]

Only 674 Doras were manufactured  

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1./Jagdgeshwader 51 "Mölders"

[SnakeEyes]

 

Number of Doras available should be still be significant to the number of fighter planes LW could put up in early 45

I couldn't tell you for certain... however, it is known that the Luftwaffe actually increased fighter production during late 1944 (if not early 1945), so it's entirely possible that those @700 planes weren't that significant of a percentage of total production.

 

As for P-47M, think about it. It might be 'anything goes' approach, and then LW pilots would have every right to ask for Me 262 and Me 163.

I agree, we don't want to make that the focus of the thread... but the @200 P-47Ms manufactured did see a reasonable amount of combat in the European Theatre with the 56th FG.  Not quite as much as the 190D, I suspect, but the 56th FG was the 2nd highest scoring USAAF fighter group of WW2, so they certainly saw plenty of action.

As for the Me262 & Me163, I'm frankly not a fan of adding jets to any WW2 sim outside of the context of a Scenario (regardless of how much combat they might have seen).  In Warbirds, for instance, I think that the time spent modeling these aircraft (they never finished the 163, but did work on it) could have been MUCH better spent elsewhere.  

Now, if you're talking about Ta152s, Do335s, and that sort of thing, I'm all for it.  I would love to see how the 47M would  match up against these sorts of planes (or how the F8F would match up against the N1K2, Ki84, or Ki100, for example).  Frankly, I think that these aircraft would attract MUCH more attention and PR for Aces High than stuff like the Brewster Buffalo, I-16, etc.  Of course, I don't expect anyone to listen to lil' ol' me.    

PS - My handle is ooo, but don't expect too much of a challenge from me... I haven't flown AH enough yet to grasp the nuances of its Flight Models.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 11-14-1999).]

[Hristo]

Thanks, Snake Eyes, for bringing this thread to meaningful conclusion.

And ooo, I hope we continue our argument in the skies of AH (damn pots should be here any day now  )



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Hristo,
I/JG 51

Jagdgeschwader 51  Mölders

[fats]

--- SnakeEyes: ---
In Warbirds, for instance, I think that the time spent modeling these aircraft (they never finished the 163, but did work on it) could have been MUCH better spent elsewhere.
--- end ---

I belive the Me 262 and the Me 163 were ( initially ) done on FT's/Pyro's _freetime_ over a weekend. Someone then did the 2D cockpit art for the 262 later on.


//fats

[SnakeEyes]

Yes, that's what I heard also, Fats... but, freetime or not, it was still a waste IMO.  

Granted, it's easy to second-guess in retrospect...

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=