A question for the GVers

[stroker71]

ok didn't mean to bring the "c" word into this.  I guess I always see trees because I play the game with maxed out graphics.  Also I thought they changed that so when in GVs it would show the trees regardless of your settings.  Wonder if in the last update that got thrown out the window.

[WWhiskey]

i haven't watched the film, but i have gotten kills without line of sight, simply by ranging a set target and having a pilot direct fire for me, then using what i do see as a reference, such as a tree in the tree line plus 2 k on the rangefinder =main vh, left one inch and down to 1.5 k = soft gun, so on and so forth, if it is in a map that we use a lot, these numbers are not hard to remember, some even write this stuff down! now all you need is a target to go to that spot, and some way to know he is there,IE an observer, i have some good squaddies who can direct my fire to hit tanks within three or four shots that i never see! those kills are fun, and generally result in a
YOU CHEAT message on 200 or a PM!
  on the maps where you can shoot from one base to another, always shooting from the same spot on your feild will help you to figure out what to look at in your line of sight, to hit targets beyond it!
 also don't forget someone else could be in the tower calling out the shots and directing fire for the shooter, it works for me!

[humble]

So look at the film and tell me what you think. The 1st shot hit me clean on the turret, the 2nd missed and I rolled the film right as the 3rd round hit me...

[WWhiskey]

OK i watched it.   the Sherman next to the fuel dump by the map room is in question right! from what i can see the trees would play no matter at all, there is high ground between you two as well that he could not see over. i traced the shot in slow motion and there was nothing wrong with it.
also he has a p-38 above you, a panzer 1.6 away, and another Sherman 1.4, any of them could have been calling in his fire for him, but more likely, since he was at a known location,IE the fuel dump, and you are at the revampment ( a very bad place to be in this case) all he needs to know is if you are there. as soon as you rolled into that spot you became a target, someone told him you were there, and he already new the coordinates to your spot, all he had to  do was hit his marks, make a small adjustment or two,  and you were toast.  but he does have to know were you are. don't use places like that if you don't want to get killed sitting in them, i always try to park somewhere not common to the game.
 

[waystin2]

don't use places like that if you don't want to get killed sitting in them, i always try to park somewhere not common to the game.
 

Immense and simple wisdom.   

Another thing I would like to add is don't be static.  Actively move to engage the enemy vehicles.  Roll from cover to cover (or concealment), shut down, listen & observe, and keep them reacting to you. 

 

Way

[PFactorDave]

What you see and what he sees are generally completely different, just have to take it in stride.

And this is why I dislike the GV aspect of the game.

[FireDrgn]

OK i watched it.   the Sherman next to the fuel dump by the map room is in question right! from what i can see the trees would play no matter at all, there is high ground between you two as well that he could not see over. i traced the shot in slow motion and there was nothing wrong with it.
also he has a p-38 above you, a panzer 1.6 away, and another Sherman 1.4, any of them could have been calling in his fire for him, but more likely, since he was at a known location,IE the fuel dump, and you are at the revampment ( a very bad place to be in this case) all he needs to know is if you are there. as soon as you rolled into that spot you became a target, someone told him you were there, and he already new the coordinates to your spot, all he had to  do was hit his marks, make a small adjustment or two,  and you were toast.  but he does have to know were you are. don't use places like that if you don't want to get killed sitting in them, i always try to park somewhere not common to the game.
 

NOT  True  in this case... Look at the rounds that hit the ground...There was no adjusting this guy was lined up from the first shot.  You cant  bloody do that with NO LINE OF SITE.  The real question is HOw the heck does this guy have LINE of sight.   HOw did He hit on the FIRST SHOT  from 4.7 k....

[Lusche]

And this is why I dislike the GV aspect of the game.

You should dislike the whole game then, because it's the same with planes

[ePIC]

Put Icons on the Tanks.... yup they are on the planes, very few discussions on improbable shot hits.

(Icons not visible w/o line of sight)

GV'in has great potential to take the game over the top, yet I find GV'ing not worth the effort due to its inconsistencies.

Sorry thats my 2 cents.

[SPKmes]

NOT  True  in this case... Look at the rounds that hit the ground...There was no adjusting this guy was lined up from the first shot.  You cant  bloody do that with NO LINE OF SITE.  The real question is HOw the heck does this guy have LINE of sight.   HOw did He hit on the FIRST SHOT  from 4.7 k....

I haven't watched as I can't seem to on this PC...but to put forward a thought to your question....It was said that there was a P38 above... now I use friendlies icon range to get my range needed....it your friendly drops low enough and marks the spot you will generally get within cooee of your target...you do not need to see said target as the rounds arc over most things at these distances......The fact that the first round hit could be sheer luck as from what I have read there are a couple after which miss...as you know once you have fired the turret isn't set back to where it was originally fired from....and the others as has been mentioned could have been relaying from their positions the round strikes......you would have to be pretty reasonable in a GV for this though.

[SPKmes]

Put Icons on the Tanks.... yup they are on the planes, very few discussions on improbable shot hits.

(Icons not visible w/o line of sight)

GV'in has great potential to take the game over the top, yet I find GV'ing not worth the effort due to its inconsistencies.

Sorry thats my 2 cents.

Icons on GV's would render GV'ing pretty lame as you have your distance right there....Sure there are anomalies within the GV part of the game..but in reality no more than the ones within the flying game.... GV'ing is a game of stealth (haha as much as is possible for metal on metal and bellowing engines) for the most part...you need to be able to hear, look and hunt....sure there are times and areas of up shoot die,up shoot die (camped spawn) but this is just a GV's idea of a capped field...if you don't like it don't up.... there are many other areas where great battles happen...There are things that need to be addressed probably, sure (but that's not my place to say) but to jump in a GV and think this is easy is not the right thing...just like the flying side there are things to learn.

[WWhiskey]

NOT  True  in this case... Look at the rounds that hit the ground...There was no adjusting this guy was lined up from the first shot.  You cant  bloody do that with NO LINE OF SITE.  The real question is HOw the heck does this guy have LINE of sight.   HOw did He hit on the FIRST SHOT  from 4.7 k....

how would you know? you saw the same film i saw!  he could have had that spot ranged all day! no reason to adjust after you get the range, also no two shots are ever exactly the same because the turret moves after every shot, he could not see the target, but imagime that he has something that he puts on the screen that lines him back up too the same shot every time, it is a stretch i know, but there are those who take this game to that next level!  do you have a better explanation?............................. ............................. ............................. .   i didn't think so!

[ePIC]

I reviewed the ahf file and I believe there is a valid concern here, but again others will discount it so why bother uppin a GV?

[bmwgs]

how would you know? you saw the same film i saw!  he could have had that spot ranged all day! no reason to adjust after you get the range, also no two shots are ever exactly the same because the turret moves after every shot, he could not see the target, but imagime that he has something that he puts on the screen that lines him back up too the same shot every time, it is a stretch i know, but there are those who take this game to that next level!  do you have a better explanation?............................. ............................. ............................. .   i didn't think so!

I think some are missing the point.  WWhiskey hit the nail on the head.  What some don't know, certain players take the time and document positions and ranges.  I guess they may do it in the off line mode, or they just happen to do it over time in the MA.  If you GV a lot you will notice certain players go to certain positions on various maps.  The reason for this is they have found from trail and error that it is the best position to get kills and minimize their risks.  They have the position ranged so all they have to do is get into position and they are ready to go.

I do not document various locations and ranges, but I am positive some do.  It takes time and patients, but in the end they will be rewarded in the ability to get that first shot hit, which in the game is so important.

I watched the film and there is no doubt he had it ranged.  My first guess he had someone on Vent or Team Speak and they were advising him when to shoot.  That's just a guess, but as for hitting from 4+K away without seeing the target, it's not that big of a deal as long as you have the range and know someone is there.

Just my opinion

Fred

[humble]

Thanks for the reply's so far. I have a question but 1st I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm asking for help not implying anything incorrect on the other GVer's part.

From what I'm gathering there is no possible line of sight since changes were made to the detail settings. In this case the shot is blind and based on having various locations pre-ranged like artillery fire and relying on a spotter. With no shell holes around the revetment no ranging fire existed prior my arrival (within some defined time frame). So we have a 1st shot literally within meters with regard to accuracy. I don't GV much but I'm not a bad shot (certainly not a real good one). To me the shots vs moving targets at closer ranges (900-1600) are harder then moving shots at long range...especially when you consider both the "kill area's" and facing as it regards to ricochets. At "longer" ranges in the 2400-3200 range vs a stationary target I'm a pretty decent shot most of the time if I stay in the same tank and get a feel for the optics again. My 1st shot ratio at 2800 in a PZIV (after a few hops) is probably 20% and my 2nd shot 50% and 3rd is 75+%. I know the hard core GVers are much better...once we get out of ranged optics (3200?) then the further beyond the more ranging is required (for me).

So without a line of sight you can't really range and a spotter wont see a flash for a hit. I have a very hard time getting a feel for how you make any ranging adjustments without any visual feedback since you have no reference point on the optics at that range (or do you)?