For Military Gun Folks.

[Shifty]

rstel01  Thanks very much for the ammo information. 

[Cthulhu]

Have a Garand, an M1-A, an AR-15(A2), and an M4. Unless I happen to be shooting at someone in the same room I'll take the M1-A everytime. Don't get me wrong, I love the Garand, the "DING" the clip makes during ejection is just plain cool (provided you're not actually in a fight). However, IMO the small difference in performance between 30-06 and .308 doesn't warrant the lower capacity. My only annoyance with the M1-A is that the op rod makes a healthy dent in the side of the spent cases during ejection, which along with having to anneal the case necks makes reloading a pain.

[sntslilhlpr6601]

M1 Garand was good for its day but had three serious flaws.

1. You can't top up the clip after you shoot rounds out of it.

2. You must empty the clip of all eight rounds and eject the clip before you can reload.

3. When you fire the last round, the loud "PLING" noise the clip makes announces to the whole world that you're out of ammo!

This is not a video game...

1. While not as easy as removing a magazine and topping it off, you can pull back the operating rod(hold it with the bottom edge of your right hand and grip the weapon with that hand, holding it in place) and insert rounds into the magazine. Not too difficult with a little practice.

2. Umm... Pull back the operating rod and press a button. Out comes the clip and your remaining rounds. Not hard.

3. As stated earlier in this thread, this can be used to your advantage. Either by having friends with full clips loaded or by throwing an empty clip at a rock.

For a no-shi@ Zombie Apocalypse gun it would be a toss up between the M1 and AK-47  

Absolutely agree. It would depend on if they're undead (Ak-47 for headshots) or infected (M1 for stopping power). Don't forget the shotgun for close range.

Edit: Concerning the video game comment, I don't blame developers for introducing these flaws. They need to take advantage of everything they can in order to balance it with the inferior Mauser. But unfortunately, they have become common misconceptions about the real thing.

[Selino631]

I really wanna get a Carcano M1891. Anybody have any good ideas where i could possibley find 1? Also when i am in the military will i be allowed to bring it to my duty station? I am assuming it'll have to stay in the Armory unless i check it out.

[Cthulhu]

I really wanna get a Carcano M1891. Anybody have any good ideas where i could possibley find 1? Also when i am in the military will i be allowed to bring it to my duty station? I am assuming it'll have to stay in the Armory unless i check it out.
(Image removed from quote.)

Good to know, thx for the head's up Lee Harvey. 

j/k   

[Selino631]

Good to know, thx for the head's up Lee Harvey. 

j/k   

lol, Nah i just wanna get a Italian WW2 rifle, one of my dads friends might get me a great deal on a M1 Carbine. then after that i am gonna look for a Lee Enfield.

[Dago]

Always funny to read some "expert" opinion on rifles.  Some few guys can actually speak from experience, and some can be objective, but way to many (like lazs) will argue like heck that the the rifle they own is the only good one, or the best, and they will argue that point regardless of their lack of real knowledge and experience with the other weapons.  Bias due to limited experience or frame of reference is more a display of ignorance than knowledge. 

There are some good posts in this thread for sure.

[Cthulhu]

lol, Nah i just wanna get a Italian WW2 rifle, one of my dads friends might get me a great deal on a M1 Carbine. then after that i am gonna look for a Lee Enfield.

Luckily, I've already got a couple of M1 carbines. What I'd really like to have is a Mauser K98.

EDIT: Actually, what I'd REALLY like to have is one of the two Luger's chambered in .45 ACP for Army evaluation,  but that's for another thread.

[rstel01]

I got to laugh about the whole "ping" thing also. It has become some sort of anti-Garand urban legend fueled by video games and Hollywood.

People who buy into it, have never really fired a weapon in anger with others in a true Combat situation or, never spoken with members of the "Greatest Generation".

Right off the bat, firing for real in a real situation (again not Call of Duty) is sensory overload. Anything squad size or more of Garands firing in deafening, not even Superman Super hearing could pick up on the ejection sound of the En-Bloc. Within 2 seconds you can have a fresh 8 rounds ready to go. It's actually pretty easy once you practice. By keeping a few En-blocs wedged in the sling, with almost the same motion and the palm of your hand it is very quickly reloaded. It's a heck of allot faster than reloading a Mauser, Enfield, Mosin or Ariska (ie stripper clips). It's about the same time window as changing a mag on any modern Combat Rifle (20-30 round box).

Even the Army itself looked at this "ping" in 42 finding it to be a non-issue in a real Combat enviroment (they played with a few plastic ideas for the En-bloc material).

The only downfall with the En-Bloc was within the M-1D and its tendancy to eject wierd or get stuck due to the scope.          

[Cthulhu]

I got to laugh about the whole "ping" thing also. It has become some sort of anti-Garand urban legend fueled by video games and Hollywood.

People who buy into it, have never really fired a weapon in anger with others in a true Combat situation or, never spoken with members of the "Greatest Generation".

Right off the bat, firing for real in a real situation (again not Call of Duty) is sensory overload. Anything squad size or more of Garands firing in deafening, not even Superman Super hearing could pick up on the ejection sound of the En-Bloc. Within 2 seconds you can have a fresh 8 rounds ready to go. It's actually pretty easy once you practice. By keeping a few En-blocs wedged in the sling, with almost the same motion and the palm of your hand it is very quickly reloaded. It's a heck of allot faster than reloading a Mauser, Enfield, Mosin or Ariska (ie stripper clips). It's about the same time window as changing a mag on any modern Combat Rifle (20-30 round box).

Even the Army itself looked at this "ping" in 42 finding it to be a non-issue in a real Combat enviroment (they played with a few plastic ideas for the En-bloc material).

The only downfall with the En-Bloc was within the M-1D and its tendancy to eject wierd or get stuck due to the scope.          

All true, but I notice you made no reference to "Garand thumb". My dad (Korea '51) used to share some rather profane recollections about that. Luckily, I've never done it myself, but it's gotta smart like Hell!

[rstel01]

All true, but I notice you made no reference to "Garand thumb". My dad (Korea '51) used to share some rather profane recollections about that. Luckily, I've never done it myself, but it's gotta smart like Hell!

All true, once it happens you learn and it only happens once.
Here is the sure fire to prevent it and speed load:
The hand not physically putting the En-Bloc in the well allways is on the stock behind the reciever (between thumb and Index with base plate of stock hard against your left calf or on the ground), from that take that thumb (one on the stock) to wrap around the Op-Rod handle. Even though you may be hard on the 2nd latch of the bolt hold open one thumb incident and you'll learn! Once the En-Bloc is in, lift the weapon up back twoards shooting position and remove your thumb from the Op-Rod. With the base of your palm (the hand that loaded the En-Bloc) slam the op road forward. As you continue to lift the weapon, you'll be right back at shooting position. It sounds odd but, your muscle memory learns it quick with a little practice (and one thumb pinch)     

   

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Never had any trouble with "Garand thumb". Neither did Dad, and he carried one in two wars, earning an expert marksman rating several times. He said the "pling" was not a problem either. The used to flip a clip and make the "pling" in calmer moments to see if they could get one or more of the enemy to stick their head up. And I never had trouble with full auto fire on an M-14, but then I learned how to shoot and control recoil, it doesn't hurt that I'm a fairly good sized guy.

[Blooz]

Twenty five years ago I owned a Garand too. I sold it to my brother when I found a brand new match grade M1A to shoot. Why? I was shooting NRA national match competition at the time and liked the magazine better than the clip. Facts is facts. The M1A/M14 is easier to load, easier to reload and holds twelve more rounds than the Garand and that's the reason they went with that design rather than the cumbersome 8 round clip the Garand has. Today I still own and shoot my M1A and M1 Carbine and I like the attention they attract. I didn't get this information from any video game. I've had to decide what was best in real life and made my choice.

[Shifty]

I see a lot of guys talking about the difficulty of loading the Garand like they plan on using it for home defense.
My love of the weapon is based on it's history. As far as home defense it's the last thing I'd reach for in my collection if Harry the Home Invader paid a call. 

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

A Garand is not the least bit difficult to load. It merely requires enough practice to handle it proficiently. If you cannot handle a weapon proficiently, and are not sufficiently dedicated to developing that proficiency, you should remove said weapon from your arsenal.

Were I to find myself in a rifle fight, armed with a Garand, and the necessary loaded clips, I would not feel that I was poorly armed at all.