A-26 Invader

[TOMCAT21]

beaufighter !

[guncrasher]

I'm trying to balance use in the MA's with FSO/Scenario potential. While the A-26 has the advantage of an extra 2,000 lbs of ords and some additional speed and structural strength its also got heavier wing-loading and a slower rate of climb compared to the A-20. Realistically the A-26 isn't "needed" anymore then the 410 is since both have functional equivalents. Personally I'd love to see the A-26 but then I'm one of a handful (10-20?) that really fly the A-20 significantly as a % of total sorties. Adding the A-26 won't really change all that much IMO compared to the impact some others will have for FSO/Scenarios. In the MA the Tu-2 and Beau will develop strong cult followings just like the IL-2 and A-20 have...

ever since i got here 3 years ago, every new plane request is always to what is "needed in fso" and that gets old, there's lots of players that never play in fso.  me I played twice, first time we flew around or 1 hour looking for a fite we never found and second, flew for 1 hr found the fite but found most people refused to engage since they didnt want to get killed. you guys like fso, great not opposed to it. but dang it let me have my a26 then u can have all your airplanes you want that will hardly get used.

also please dont say that the a20 is "almost" as good as the a26, not even close.  i see the a20 being used maybe once a week, reason, its slow as hell and dont carry enough ords to make it worthwhile.  maybe you should compare the a26 to the b26 which is faster, better payload than the a20. I want the a26 due mostly for town, kindda like the way we used the 110's for fast noe base taking missions. but it could also switch to destroy hangars and for base suppression.  we currently dont have a buff that can do this.  Imagine dropping 1 or 2 hangars then capping the field along with the fiters.  we currently dont have this capability and it would be awesome to have it .


semp

[Karnak]

Guncrasher,

Since AH2 went live, the following units have been added that are either even in weight between scenarios and the MA or mainly for the MA:

B-24J
P-47M
P-47N
Ki-84
Sherman VC 'Firefly'
T-34/85
Wirbelwind

The most recent addition, the P-47M, has almost no scenario use and is almost exclusively an MA unit.


As to your comments about the A-20 vs A-26.  Lets look at some numbers:
(using wikipedia as a quick and dirty source for the A-26B)

Weight, empty:
A-20G: 16,610lbs
A-26B: 22,850lbs

Weight, maximum:
A-20G: 26,000lbs
A-26B: 35,000lbs

Wing area:
A-20G: 465sq.ft
A-26B: 540sq.ft

Wing loading, empty:
A-20G: 35.72lbs.sq.ft
A-26B: 42.31lbs.sq.ft

A-20G is 6.59lbs.sq.ft better

Wing loading, maximum:
A-20G: 55.91lbs.sq.ft
A-26B: 64.81lbs.sq.ft

A-20G is 8.9lbs.sq.ft better

Power:
A-20G: 1,650hpx2: 3,300hp
A-26B: 2,000hpx2: 4,000hp

Powerloading, empty:
A-20G: 5.03lb.hp
A-26B: 5.71lb.hp

A-20G is 0.68lb.hp better

Powerloading, maximum:
A-20G: 7.88lb.hp
A-26B: 8.75lb.hp

A-20G is 0.87lb.hp better

Speed:
A-20G: 338mph at 12,000ft.
A-26B: 355mph at unknown.

A-26B is 17mph faster

Deck speed:
A-20G: 316mph
A-26B: unknown, but due to lower ceiling I'd guess it has a larger speed advantage here than at best alt.

A-26B is likely to be ~25mph faster



The A-26B is faster and carries more armament, but it is unlikely to be nearly as nice to handle as the A-20G.  It certainly is not massively better performancewise as some posters here seem to think it was.  Looking at the wingloading and powerloading I would not expect it to out climb the A-20G either.

It may have been awesome in Airwarrior, but that does not seem to be an accurate representation of its capabilities.


Addendum:
The A-26B won't do anything the Bf110G-2 doesn't already do.  If you want an aircraft to do what you describe, bombing and then providing a cap, take a N1K2-J, Bf110G-2, P-38L or Mosquito Mk VI.

[Beefcake]

I really hate beating the old dead horse but I'm going to break out the stick again.

 

Addendum:
The A-26B won't do anything the Bf110G-2 doesn't already do.  If you want an aircraft to do what you describe, bombing and then providing a cap, take a N1K2-J, Bf110G-2, P-38L or Mosquito Mk VI.

Karnak you want the He-111, which I would like to see also. BUT we already have the Ju88 and B26, both of which do it's job just fine.
The He-111 is not needed by your argument.

In the quote above you said it yourself, the Niki, Bf110, P38 and Mossie could do the job of a an A26, by comparison that means it could also do the jobs of a  Beaufighter, a Tu-2, Me410, SB2C, etc. This means none of them are needed either.

Here's another one that you'll agree with, we don't need the B29 because the Lanc can do it's job.

EVERY plane in the game currently can do the job of a plane we don't have yet. PLEASE stop using this argument!


Now in keeping with the OP I would love to see an A26, BUT honestly I would just like to have SOME OTHER perked bomber to waste points on. Bomber pilots are long overdue for a powerful toy to play with.

[Karnak]

Actually, Beefcake, I have argued against the He111 at this time as it is too close to the Ju88 to really be a gap filler.

I'd love to see the Tu-2 or Pe-2.  Maybe a Ki-43 or J2M3 or G4M2.  Maybe even an SM.79-II.

As for a powerful bomber, the Mosquito B.Mk XVI would make a good one.  People asking for the A-26 don't want a powerful bomber, they want a fighter you can hang bomber levels of ordnance off of.

[humble]

semp,

The real question is still pretty simple, what will the A-26 offer vs the A-20. Now if we look at the Boston vs A-20 the truth is that the Boston is a superior 1 v 1 air to air platform but its got minimal hitting power. So the trade off in performance is worth the extra firepower. If we look at the A-20 vs A-26 we see additional ords but strictly from a numbers perspective an indicated decrease in certain performance aspects. So while it will be faster, stronger and carry more ords its not going to be "better" then the 110 or Mossie. The biggest advantage IMO will actually be the increased structural strength that will allow better use of E.

I'd view the A-26 in the same light as the Spit VIII/XVI vs the Spit IX. You'll still see a lot of better sticks gravitate to the IX because it has certain advantages over the "better" plane, same with the D hog vs the 1a.

[LLogann]

Every month another Invader thread.........

Yet every month the debate seems to differ.

Crazy I tell ya, crazy!!!

[BaldEagl]

Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities.  It would be a nice addition.

[Karnak]

Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities.  It would be a nice addition.

It probably would be a nice addition.  Tu-2 would be nicer though.

As a point of interest, 418 Squadron was doing their Intruder operations in Boston Mk IIIs before being re-equipped with Mosquitoes.

[BaldEagl]

For the record I also want the high speed Mosquito with the level bomb sight.

[humble]

Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities.  It would be a nice addition.

Exactly...and I 100% would love to see the A-26 but realistically there are other options that should be considered greater priorities. To me the Tu-2 and the Beaufighter and Ki-43/D4Y or some other Japanese plane need to come 1st. The truth is that very little other then the G.55 will see much use in the MA's....

[Yossarian]

Karnak, thanks for that post - I must admit that 70% of why I want the A-26 is that I think it's pretty cool


That being said, are there any bombers which would actually make acceptable outlets for bomber perk points?

EDIT: Also, Mosquito XVIs?

EDIT2: *wanted - the A-26 evidently isn't half as good as I thought it would be!

[Karnak]

Perk bombers are kinda a tricky thing.  People expect a certain level of unkillability in perk units and bombers are either very hard to kill (Ar234) or not really hard to kill.  Thus, for most perk bombers we can probably expect to see relatively low costs meant simply to prevent that bomber from making lots of other bombers obsolete by default.

I'd expect the B-29A to be the only other potentially expensive bomber aside from the Ar234.  The A-26 and Mosquito Mk XVI would probably be low perk price bombers, perked only to control their use a bit.  The B7A2 and Il-10 might fall into that category as well.

I can't think of any WWII bombers other than those that would warrant perking.

[Beefcake]

Karnak I actually keep refreshing the home page hoping to see a nice Mossie B displayed there. 

[Karnak]

Karnak I actually keep refreshing the home page hoping to see a nice Mossie B displayed there. 

The B.XVI would be nice as a perk bomber and the B.Mk IV would be good for scenarios, but I actually don't know how fun the B Mossies would be in the MA.  Half the fun of taking a bomber out is shooting down the fighters trying to get you.

I think I'd use the B Mossies a bit, but I don't think I'd like them as much as, say, a Ju188A.