Author Topic: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow  (Read 816 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 06:10:05 PM »
You can't map without material, not even a guess.  My understanding is that we have recovered some Neanderthal DNA from teeth or dense bones where it lasts longer.
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 06:11:45 PM »
And can anybody tell us the % difference in our DNA makeup compared to a chimpanzee?  









Karnak, we've had their bones since the 19th century.  (According to HC)  A skull I think. 

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 06:14:04 PM »
We have a lot of their bones actually.  But the conditions to preserve DNA for the 15,000+ years they have been extinct are pretty rare.


EDIT:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0831_050831_chimp_genes.html

This story says 96% similar between Chimps and Humans.  That would have been almost identical for Neanderthal, who are vastly closer to Homo Sapiens.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 06:16:27 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 06:21:23 PM »
They are claiming similarities in gene chains indicate differences in Neanderthal and modern humans and somehow that because those differences are not common among Africans that cross-breeding must have occurred. You support that conclusion?
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 06:26:06 PM »
  That sounds like what I had heard also.  Now if you take a look at the anatomy, one could say the chimp & the neanderthal have a much closer similarity than ours to the neanderthal.  Bigger chest cavity, wider hips, shorter legs and so on. 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0831_050831_chimp_genes.html

This story says 96% similar between Chimps and Humans.  That would have been almost identical for Neanderthal, who are vastly closer to Homo Sapiens.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 06:33:05 PM »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 06:40:08 PM »
Challenge, I don't know enough about the claims to either support or dismiss them.  I'd have to read the actual study, and my educational background is not biology, so I'd have to do a lot of cross studying to fully understand the report.  I was just trying to clarify the basic claims and reasoning.  Essentially they have found DNA chains in European/Asian homo sapiens samples that match chains found in neanderthal samples, but those chains were not present in sub-Saharan homo sapien samples.

Those differences are very slight compared to those differences between humans/neanderthal and chimps.  Current evidence has chimps are much closer to the animal that is the common ancestor of hominids and chimpanzees and thus will bear a closer resemblance to early hominds, homo habilis for example.  Neanderthal are millions of years downstream from that though.

Warning, throwing out rough numbers based on data remembered from classes long past:

Homo sapiens/Homo neanderthalensis and Pan troglodytes (chimps) nearest common ancestor would probably be found 5-10 million years ago.  The nearest common ancestor for Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis would be, perhaps, 500,000 years ago.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 06:56:23 PM »
Here are a selection of mounted skeletons:

Pan troglodytes:



Homo neanderthalensis:



Homo sapiens:
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Offline APDrone

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 08:40:20 PM »



Quote from: APDrone on Today at 05:04:32 PM
"Not according to the Lifetime channel..."

History Channel started running a similar investigative show 3 months ago. 


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Offline greens

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 08:43:34 PM »
I knew i wasnt the only caveman whewww  ;)
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2010, 09:27:44 PM »
Challenge, I don't know enough about the claims to either support or dismiss them.  I'd have to read the actual study, and my educational background is not biology, so I'd have to do a lot of cross studying to fully understand the report.  I was just trying to clarify the basic claims and reasoning.  Essentially they have found DNA chains in European/Asian homo sapiens samples that match chains found in neanderthal samples, but those chains were not present in sub-Saharan homo sapien samples.

I think this is a VERY important finding of the study. Had this genetic coding been present in ALL modern humans sampled it could be considered an indication of a genetic relic retained from the last common ancestor between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens and not necessarily an indication of interbreeding between Neanderthals and modern humans. However what are the chances that genetic material found in ALL Neanderthals sampled are present in SOME populations of modern humans LIVING TODAY by coincidence or convergent development?

Granted, there's probably only a limited number of viable samples that were able to be collected from Neanderthal remains for the research but it still strikes me as significant.
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2010, 10:36:24 PM »
Don't let it go, please explain why APDrone's comment's are quoted in mine?  I never mentioned Lifetime.....  The Channel for Women. 


Dilemma... do I explain, or do I just let it go... 



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Offline APDrone

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2010, 11:43:52 PM »
Don't let it go, please explain why APDrone's comment's are quoted in mine?  I never mentioned Lifetime.....  The Channel for Women. 


lol.. well, you do have an idea of what Lifetime is..

I figure they've been calling men neanderthals for years..  Since women are never wrong... Technically, all this DNA info is old news...

 :salute
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2010, 11:46:54 PM »
Oh, now they said that after all the studies of evolution i went through.  Just wasted my 5 years of college. 
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Offline Tac

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Re: Uggh-chicka Bow-Wow
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2010, 11:51:17 PM »
I knew it!





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