Arena cap

[RDSaustinTX]

So to say "The caps suck get rid of them" is an incomplete thought and should be ignored.

Complete the thought and I'll ignore you accordingly.     

[Lusche]

The problem is, you can hardly create a cap system that achieves all goals at once without pissing anyone off at a certain point.

We are looking for a system that

- prevents getting numbers in any single arena from getting too high, ("unhealthy") , whatever that number is (lets say, for discussion purposes only, 300)
- balances the load between the arenas, so that it's not hundreds of players having fun in one and a dozen boring themselves in the other
- is getting that balance as quick as possible.

The last two are the difficult ones to meet. Once you enable the cap, it takes time for the second arena to fill up. Unfortunately the current system is producing much grief for those flying at "early caps" time.

The only real "solution" I can think of would indeed be getting the caps into effect later than it currently uses to be, when more players are online - and then remove a appropriate number of players from LWO, so that both arenas will be up to the same numbers. For example: population in LWO gets to 300... zooooomg: LWO 150, LWB 150.
Of course it's not that easy... you can just randomly suddenly kick 50% of the players out of the arena. I'm not seriously proposing this

But... I'm just letting my thoughts flow... how about a regular, scheduled "shift" system?A daytime arena, and a "nighttime" arena, or non-prime and primetime or whatever.
Let's say the single daytime arena get's shut down at the same time each day (like 16:00 EST or whatever time is best). The whole process could be automated to happen at exact the  same time each day and include early warnings at T-30, T-15, T-10, T-5 minutes. Then the arena closes, and the two "prime time" arenas will open up, with appropriate caps placed on them. Both would then will fill up more quickly.

Of course players would complain (we always do, don't we?). But as it's scheduled & automated, so it's reliably happening at the same time each day, no one would be surprised by a sudden shutdown. And  it would just be a 15-30 minutes timespan in which action would die in the non-prime arena in expectation of the shutdown, and the two primetime arenas get back up to numbers and action - and note a 2 hour time of seeing LWB numbers climbing up from 20-100 players...

[danny76]

Actually the real problem with the caps is when they go into effect.  There is about a 20-30 minute time period where the game is unplayable.  I logged in the other day right when the caps went into effect and orange was at 120/100 or something, Blue 0/0.  Okay, I'll go to blue.  So I got in blue and I'm the only guy in there.  After about ten minutes I click refresh and now there are 5 or 6 people in there.  It takes up to half an hour for there to be enough players to actually have a fight.  And if it's a giant map in blue, forget about it.

It wasn't a big deal because I usually don't play in the day but I can see how it would be aggravating for someone who can only play in the U.S. daytime hours.  Just sayin.

I have a problem in the slightest going into Blue instead of Orange.

Not for lack of squaddies

Just lack of a fight.

Yesterday there was at 1 point (when the Orange cap opened up presumably), where the numbers were 7 Bish 2 Rook and 2 Knights.

The Bish did not want a fight, they were just rolling bases and score hoarding, so what choices do I have?

1. Pootle about trying to find a fight with the Rook, 1 of which is permanently in a Panzer, the other apparently AFK

2. Fight against 7 to 1 ganging and picking

3. Give up till Orange cap opens up again

Having said that, last night was one of the best nights in a long time once I didi get into Orange. Salute to all fighting over 221 / 222 last night.

[AWwrgwy]

<READ IT UP ABOVE>

So you want to boot everyone out of all the MA's daily, on a schedule?  Make them re-enter the arena's, each with the dynamic cap working?  A mini reset type thing, but only resetting the numbers, not the map?

Wouldn't having 24 hour a day caps do the same thing?

If you just hid the numbers, would everyone still NEED to be in the first arena on the list?

If you roll back the time caps begin, more people wouldn't be able to get into the "popular" arena because you would have an even more lopsided 250/100, 60/150 situation.

The solution is in the hands of the players, some of who just MUST be in that particular arena no matter what.  A whole squad will not switch to accommodate the guy who can't join them where they are.  "There are no good fights" in the other arena.  Who's fault is that?

What's the saying about helping those who help themselves?



wrongway

[Lusche]

So you want to boot everyone out of all the MA's daily, on a schedule?  Make them re-enter the arena's, each with the dynamic cap working?  A mini reset type thing, but only resetting the numbers, not the map?

That's basically my idea. But it's not  what "I want to" - I'm just brainstorming

Wouldn't having 24 hour a day caps do the same thing?

No, absolutely not.

What I'm trying to avoid is arenas with only 20 players or so. 24 hour a day caps would mean two arenas with 40 players each for many hours a day.
And with the current system, you have a (closed) high numbers arena and an open, low numbers arena for a long time when caps kick in. It really sucks having to play at this time.

The solution is in the hands of the players, some of who just MUST be in that particular arena no matter what.  A whole squad will not switch to accommodate the guy who can't join them where they are.

It's illusory that everybody suddenly starts to leave LWO once caps kick in and goes to LWB, just to balance the numbers. And you can't really blame anybody who's just logging off again when coming to the login screen and seeing LWO 170/100 and LWB 20/150. After all, if players were that altruistic, there would not be any caps on the two arenasin the first place. If you have two arenas, youhave to channel the players in some way.



I'm just looking for a better way to ensure that as few players as possible, for a short time as possible, have a negative impact on fun & gameplay by split arena's & caps.
And it's particular important for me to have some reasonable minimum numbers. As I said before, when i was joining AH I was able to play with 200-250 players on a map at my prime time. Now it's almost always not only half that number, but sometimes maybe a quarter... and not just for 15 minutes. And it's definitely less fun.

[Pongo]

Like I said in the first response in the thread, I was on a long break when these things were implemented, and I am not exactly sure the purpose, but the effect on me, when I notice an effect is that I am forced into some pretty poorly populated servers when the "full" server is really not nearly full, its probably got a good fight going.
Presumably at some point in some nights, the ability of the servers to handle the customers is overwhelmed and this is a load balancing concept.
Maybe it is the best that could be conceived.
What would people think of this scenario.

Orange at 800
"System: Casualties will be kicked from the arena for load balancing"
And they can log into the other arena.
Might create an interesting dynamic.
Might be worse.
But if they have to load balance, and they want to clean some people off one server and force them to another, and do it quickly, people die pretty quick on a 500 person server. The other server would be at 200 players pretty quick.

[Lusche]

Orange at 800
"System: Casualties will be kicked from the arena for load balancing"
And they can log into the other arena.
Might create an interesting dynamic.
Might be worse.

Interesting? Indeed! Worse? You can bet!

And speaketh the Lord:
"Thou shall not die and be resurrected in this world
But thou shalt live in the other one
For I am your LORD and this is my will"

And upon these words of the LORD
There was a big crying all over the server
And a big hugging of the ack commenced
And not the angles did fly in heavenly spheres
But the players, being afraid to come down
And fly beneath another one
For it could be their death
And departure from this world."




(in other words: everybody will start to fly like me.... )

[iwomba]

I think that any plausable reason for arena caps has been debunked by having Titanic Tuesday.

There should only be 2 arenas for LW & get rid of the other waste of space arenas that only have 10-20 in them practically all the time.

By closing the low populated arenas ( EW , MW , WW1 ) you also address the so called "arena health" issue.

I cannot see how one can talk about arena health when you have these other arenas that basically do not get used.

Same as how you can discuss arena caps when you have Titanic Tuesday.

I hate TT but the numbers in there could also prove that many might be in favour of a single large arena.

[The Fugitive]

Like I said in the first response in the thread, I was on a long break when these things were implemented, and I am not exactly sure the purpose,

I think that any plausable reason for arena caps has been debunked by having Titanic Tuesday.

The reason it was put together was HTC subscription stopped growing. Once the split arena system was added the subscription rate has started to grow again. Subscriptions going up is good for business. Titanic Tuesday is a concession to those players who "think" they know whats better for the business.

As for a solution.... maybe keep the system as it is, but when the dynamic caps kick in make the percentage needed to open more space in the other arena dynamic as well. I'm not sure what the numbers are for real, but say when the DC (Dynamic Caps) kick in it opens more space when the cap gets within 15% of the cap. If they changed that to a dynamic that started at say 2% and over the first 4 hours in creased to the 15% wouldn't that make the population closer and easier to get into each arena? Would this work, can anyone think of any negative effects it might have?

The cap system suks point blank and it doesn't help new people stay in reguardless what people say.  Nobody likes it so they keep it in, I have the same problems Kvuo.  I've not heard one person say they like the cap system all it does is prevent good fights because of the lesser numbers in the arena's.  More red con's the better. 

Yes caps suck, but it's a necessary evil that we must all live with if we want the game to continue and grow.

[oTRALFZo]

What I loved when we had arena caps turned off for that brief taste of bliss was the fact that LWO and LWB had a very consistent "theme" (trying to look for a better word) about both arenas I think that everyone enjoyed.
LWO had the #s, very easy to find action no matter what the map was. It was very difficult but not possible to milkrun because soon as a base flashed..they would find opposition. Which I enjoyed. Also, very rarely did any side experience ENY so it made a nice balance.
LWB even with the low #s, you know was populated by base rollers and milkrunners, if thats your thing go to LWB that was usually dominated by one country totally outnumbering the other 2. What I found to be the most fun was joining the low #s side to fight these guys.

Now since the re-intro of arena caps, for some reason changed the style of gameplay of both arenas. You have say rooks in LWO with an ENY of 15-20 with nits having the low #s and you find that the other countries are still pumbling undefended nit feilds.
Now in LWB, The Knights outnumber everyone else, Rooks with low #s and the Rook undefended front being pumbled.

Your choice in both arenas..horde or be hoarded. Be part of the 1 vs 10 fight or 10 vs 1 fight. I ask HTC this question..If too many people in one arena is unhealthy, wouldnt this style of gameplay that is consistent with the arena caps be an unhealthier enviroment? Or is it the lesser of the 2 evils? I would assume keeping the caps off so at least players arent griefed with being forced to play in an arena they didnt choose.
 
Flame away guys

 

[hitech]

I also believe that stats will show that on a daily basis, the arena's max entry flow rate can be predicted through simple statistics. 

This is how we chose the current switch time.

HiTech

[MunKySR]

Can I ask a simple question as why (in non-peak time such as 1:30 PM EDST with only 280 players on the entire system) we have areana capping limits as per the distribution below! Makes NO sense to me. When I do get a moment to play in this game, I dont appreciate having to go play by myself.  Would it not make more sense to have a minimum limit of at least 200 each Orange and Blue, never ever have I seen 300 players in Early!

early 5/350
mid 11/350
Orange 176/100
Blue 80/100
Dogfight #1 0/100
Dogfight #2 0/100
Axis vs Allies, 1/200

I know the thread has been beat up before, I'm just makin a suggestion lookin for a technical answer.
Its just so frustrating to be locked out when you dont have much time.

Thx

MunKySR

[Lusche]

1. Early mid caps are just theoretical ones. And as they don't have any influence on the LW arenas, you can simply ignore them

2. LW Caps are dynamic. See http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/arenas.html on how they work.
2.1 Caps are started at 12:00 EST, that's why you see LWO having 76 players more than it's cap limit currently is. As time goes by, that number will change. See above.

3, You have now 176+80= 256 players total in both LW arenas. So what would it look like if the cap was a minimum of 200? In LW there would be 200, in LWB 56 players. Would that be any better to you?

[MunKySR]

Perhaps it might be, or maybe not. And why only balance arenas by "Total players" and not by "players from country" as well ...
Also, perhaps both Orange and Blue maps could always be identical so as to remove that preference as well, in that way if numbers are too high in one board a group of players that wish to play as a unit can simply move to the other board. There are always ways and means of improving an algorithm.
It just doesn't work well the way it is now either.
To the point, I will just walk away from it, better things to do than sit around waiting for action in an almost empty arena. 

Munk

[grizz441]

This is how we chose the current switch time.

HiTech

Mid day?  

I would have thought max entry flow rate would be closer to around 6-7 est.