Author Topic: Combat Maneuvering  (Read 2313 times)

Offline phatzo

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 03:09:59 PM »
would you believe I have the place surrounded by the national guard.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2010, 03:10:25 PM »
That tripod site is a copy of a combataircraft.com (EDIT: actually, the tripod is original, just checked it...)

Anyways, I remember that tactics page from way back, 2003/2004 or so, and I just checked it through wayback machine for 2005 and it's everything the same, so our Little Genius wrote that when he was 9 or younger

Not only he has fighter pilot genes but also Voss genes.



Text from 2005:
Quote from:
This is used when an attacker is first seen approaching or is already in the cone of vulnerability. Its purpose is twofold: to spoil the attacker's aim and to force him to overshoot. The break is always made towards the direction of attack, This generates "angle-off" as quickly as possible which makes the defender a difficult target. The attacker may be able to cut inside the turn but he is forced to pull lead. To do this he must tighten his turn, which increases his angle of attack. It is difficult for him to pull his nose around at high angles of attack to achieve a firing solution. The defender should also alter his plane of flight to make himself a more difficult target.

Two forms of break are possible, depending on the circumstances of the attack. The defender can use a maximum-rate sustained turn in which he does not lose speed, or the hardest possible turn in which he almost certainly does. The speed loss attendant on the hard turn aids his chances of forcing the attacker to overshoot, as does the smaller radius of turn, but oft-quoted maxims such as "speed is life" act as an inhibitor. If the break succeeds in forcing the attacker to overshoot, the next maneuver is the Scissors.

Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20051223145436/www.combataircraft.com/tactics/the_break.asp
(WARNING! TAKES 10 MINUTES TO LOAD)

« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:14:12 PM by 2bighorn »

Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2010, 03:11:22 PM »
Did no one check the first link I posted?  :lol
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2010, 03:15:01 PM »
Did no one check the first link I posted?  :lol

Yeah we did, but he said he wrote that too  :rofl

Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 03:18:47 PM »
Maybe he truly believes that was writing is.. "Ctrl + c"  & "Ctrl + v"
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Offline Stoliman

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2010, 03:21:29 PM »
Don't question Squid.  He worked on it with his wife Morgan Fairchild.....whom he has seen naked.
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Online Shuffler

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2010, 03:24:26 PM »
If you stay full power in an engagement... you will be in the tower.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2010, 03:26:44 PM »
I prefer the graphics versions on the links. Thanks guys.  :aok

Hey, anyone seen the "falling brick" maneuver? I'd like to know if I'm executing it properly. You know, the one where you pull too hard on the turn and you're plane falls to the ground like it's deadstick. I think I have it down pretty well but I could use some pointers.  :D




And lilsquid, copy and paste is still plagirism even after you toss in the spelling and grammatical errors.
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Offline Badboy

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2010, 03:34:26 PM »
At least cite your source, since you simply copy and pasted - http://www.combataircraft.com/en/Tactics/Air-To-Air/

The problem is that's not the original source, the text and images on that page come from a book called "Modern Air Combat" by Bill Gunston and Mike Spick. 1991.

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Air-Combat-Aircraft-Employed/dp/0517412659

The text on that site is taken from the book verbatim, but the images have been scanned and pasted onto a new background, unlike the site below which shows them as they appear in the book.

http://f15eeagle.tripod.com/sci.html

The book is out of print but you can still get second hand copies.

I guess that after almost 20 years the publisher and authors (Gunston would be 83 now and Spick would be 76) have lost interest in challenging copyright infringements.

Badboy

Edit:
My mistake, my edition was published in 1991, but it was first published in 1988, 22 years ago. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:56:26 PM by Badboy »
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2010, 03:36:08 PM »
The problem is that's not the original source, the text and images on that page come from a book called "Modern Air Combat" by Bill Gunston and Mike Spick. 1991.

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Air-Combat-Aircraft-Employed/dp/0517412659

The text on that site is taken from the book verbatim, but the images have been scanned and pasted onto a new background, unlike the site below which shows them as they appear in the book.

http://f15eeagle.tripod.com/sci.html

The book is out of print but you can still get second hand copies.

I guess that after almost 20 years the publisher and authors (Gunston would be 83 now) have lost interest in challenging copyright infringements.

Badboy

Great find, now we know lilsquid is definitely lying, or he wrote this before he was born.
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Offline uptown

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2010, 03:37:44 PM »
Someone break out the TRIPLE facepalm pic.  :rolleyes:
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2010, 03:38:18 PM »
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline uptown

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2010, 03:41:51 PM »
 :rofl omg i spit my tea on the keyboard  :rofl

Lilsquid, you can't fool these guys around here. They live and breathe this stuff. Now go to your room and hang your head in shame.  :salute
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:44:20 PM by uptown »
Lighten up Francis

Offline Spikes

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2010, 03:42:15 PM »
Oh what is this world coming to.
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Offline Dawger

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Re: Combat Maneuvering
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2010, 03:52:04 PM »
I find it funny he copied from a copy of a copy of a copy and didn't bother to even spell check or proofread. And then claim to have written it.

Anyone (including me) who has written anything on the subject of ACM has gotten the information from another source, even the guys who publish the books.

 Lilsquid is the first I've seen to claim original authorship.