Tonight

[Dichotomy]

Didn't have a lot of time tonight but got to up a couple of times.  Some nice turn fights with Old and did better than I expected.  Even got a proxy on a Mossie which always makes me smile. 

I did see and tried to get in there and help a countryman in a 3 V 1.  Can we err to the side of caution and try to keep it max 2 v 1 most of the time? There's plenty of other targets especially when I'm on. 

Oh and Dot.. you are one stealthy mother dude..<S>

   

[ImADot]

Oh and Dot.. you are one stealthy mother dude..<S>

 

It's my blue Spitty.   


I'd agree with the 2v1...seems about the right "fun" level.  Although, I did take a 1v3 and turn it into a 1v1 last week...and then got picked by the two coming back to the fight.   


Lots of fun fights tonight, for sure.  But then it's fun most every night.

[Puma44]

Agree, Dot.  More than a 2v1 or 2v2 is basically a horde in the making. 

[Dawger]

So when you are flying around in your four ship finger four, send one element down to kill the solo bandit and the second element flies top cover...................its a horde?

We get that complaint all the time in the MA. "It took four of you to kill me". I always answer "No it only took one. The rest were just cheerleaders."

Expecting a 1 v 1 fight or expecting a bunch of people to wait patiently to accommodate your limited SA and poor decision making is MA attitude.

The guys in my squad love the AvA. We haven't been in there in a while but we hope to not encouter this attitude when we fly there.

Please don't this attitude of the "AvA is a Bruce Lee movie"* take a stranglehold on the arena.

History was all about teamwork. If you discourage teamwork then all you get is a small number of folks trying to be a BIG fish in the Little Pond.

*NOTE: In Bruce Lee movies the bad guys patiently wait their turn to attack the HERO. Silly in the extreme and completely unlike anything resembling a real fight

[dhyran]

So when you are flying around in your four ship finger four, send one element down to kill the solo bandit and the second element flies top cover...................its a horde?

We get that complaint all the time in the MA. "It took four of you to kill me". I always answer "No it only took one. The rest were just cheerleaders."

Expecting a 1 v 1 fight or expecting a bunch of people to wait patiently to accommodate your limited SA and poor decision making is MA attitude.

The guys in my squad love the AvA. We haven't been in there in a while but we hope to not encouter this attitude when we fly there.

Please don't this attitude of the "AvA is a Bruce Lee movie"* take a stranglehold on the arena.

History was all about teamwork. If you discourage teamwork then all you get is a small number of folks trying to be a BIG fish in the Little Pond.

*NOTE: In Bruce Lee movies the bad guys patiently wait their turn to attack the HERO. Silly in the extreme and completely unlike anything resembling a real fight

i agree 100%

Those who talking about hording have no clue about aircombat! Not form historical and not about tactical Fighter Combat today!
We Ld came in often with 3-6 pilots, sure we work as a team, trying to balance sides, but while we successfull as a team, and i see opponents very seldom working together, finaly they lose, at the end ppl left the arena and talking about getting jumed by a horde! Thats just a shame that ppl don't try to work as a Team, engage as a team, but much more intresting, disengage as a team! Controlled disengagements needs a good lead and to bring all pilots back home alive is realy a hard mission sometimes, finaly disengament is often called running 

All i can say, read Fighter Combat from Robert R. Shaw , learn brevity codes, use them and stop looking for a 1vs1 all the time! If you want to have a 1 vs 1 go into the DA switch off icons, but please son't missuse and turn the ava into a 1vs1 arena. Fighting as a team is the most hardest part to learn, because you have to add you SA into a controlled Group SA, adding brevity codes to paint the whole picture at the same time!

<S>
dhyran

[Shifty]

The arena is going to have to make the transition to a squadron friendly arena if you want more numbers. If you're going to complain about people that fly as a squad all you'll ever have is the same 4-6 people talking about what a wonderful bunch of 1v1s they had. Seeing a squad come in as work as a squad is a good thing and should be embraced and countered by the opposite side flying as a team as well. There's plenty of time when the numbers are low and you get your buddy on buddy fights. If you guys want a private arena where the same few players are happy doing the same thing over and over each night, complaining is the way to ensure it. If you want an active arena where you have numbers regulalrly the private sandbox mentality is going to have to take a backseat or the arena will never be allowed to flourish. There's just no sense in people putting effort into setups or scenarios four a constant 1v1 mentality.

[Dichotomy]

Simmer down gents.. that was phrased as a request not a demand.  I'm not going to get my drawers in a bunch one way or another.  If I get in a 3 v 1 the next plane is free and I don't worry too much about it.  But when I see it happening to someone else I raise an eyebrow because I don't want that player becoming frustrated with the arena.  I think squads coming in are a good thing and I'd love to see more of it.

And Dawger I agree with you insofar as sending two down and two flying high. 

[Puma44]

So when you are flying around in your four ship finger four, send one element down to kill the solo bandit and the second element flies top cover...................its a horde?

We get that complaint all the time in the MA. "It took four of you to kill me". I always answer "No it only took one. The rest were just cheerleaders."

Expecting a 1 v 1 fight or expecting a bunch of people to wait patiently to accommodate your limited SA and poor decision making is MA attitude.

The guys in my squad love the AvA. We haven't been in there in a while but we hope to not encouter this attitude when we fly there.

Please don't this attitude of the "AvA is a Bruce Lee movie"* take a stranglehold on the arena.

History was all about teamwork. If you discourage teamwork then all you get is a small number of folks trying to be a BIG fish in the Little Pond.

*NOTE: In Bruce Lee movies the bad guys patiently wait their turn to attack the HERO. Silly in the extreme and completely unlike anything resembling a real fight

It would great to see "tactically" flown 2 and 4 ship formations.  That would reflect real world accuracy vs 3, 4, 5, etc guys jumping on one guy with no one else close by for close support, etc. "a horde".  We have one guy in the the arena who consistently goes " tracers off".  To the best of my knowledge, pilots in WWII, didn't have the option of not loading tracers. I know that modern day fighter pilots don't have the option either, nor would they want it.  In my opinion, that crosses the line of gaming the game.  

It is a fairly rare sight to see tactically flown 2 ships in any arena, even more rare to see a 4 ship.  This is a game and we all chose to "fly" it the way we want.  So, in my observations, that demonstrates 3 scenarios; disciplined tactical formations, single ship "same way,same day" formations, and single ship "Oh, target, mine" multiple singles v 1, i.e. the horde.

My intention is not to berate anyone's choice of game play. Just offering up some observations.  The AvA has morphed into a more realistic, real world atmosphere with some notable exceptions. It has become a mostly consistent level of fun and cooperative arena.  So, much so that I haven't been the MAs in nearly 4 months and can't see a reason to do so.

To all of you who have contributed to the new AvA atmosphere, a hearty salute!    

[Puma44]

i agree 100%

Those who talking about hording have no clue about aircombat! Not form historical and not about tactical Fighter Combat today!
We Ld came in often with 3-6 pilots, sure we work as a team, trying to balance sides, but while we successfull as a team, and i see opponents very seldom working together, Finlay they lose, at the end ppl left the arena and talking about getting jumed by a horde! Thats just a shame that ppl don't try to work as a Team, engage as a team, but much more intresting, disengage as a team! Controlled disengagements needs a good lead and to bring all pilots back home alive is relay a hard mission sometimes, finaly disengagement is often called running  

All i can say, read Fighter Combat from Robert R. Shaw , learn brevity codes, use them and stop looking for a 1vs1 all the time! If you want to have a 1 vs 1 go into the DA switch off icons, but please son't missuse and turn the ava into a 1vs1 arena. Fighting as a team is the most hardest part to learn, because you have to add you SA into a controlled Group SA, adding brevity codes to paint the whole picture at the same time!

<S>
dhyran

Herein is the quandary, we have an amazing WWII air combat game that has enormous real world accuracy as far as the equipment goes. But, how that is employed or flown is up to each $14.95 a month player.  Some like to fly and employ realistic tactics, some like a looser single ship cooperative formation, and others do the single ship, anything for a score technique.  All these lead to frustration when realism is mixed with gaming the game.  For me, it all comes down to attitude. Having fun with the game and respecting the other guy's ( gal's) style is key and is what the AvA has developed into, with an exception or two or three.      

[grumpy37]

i think the no more than a 2v1 comment refers to a single plane and its obvious there are no other guys around him or a low number situation which happens a lot in AvA.  Just from listening to vox I dont think ive ever heard anyone complain about multiple bad guys on him when he has multiple friends around to join in.   I personally always ask to join in a situation the seems to be either under control or obvious 1v1.  But I then fly observation or "cheerleader", thats a great way to put it!  I think the biggest issue is most of the "regulars" as we are called came in as single, frustrated MA players that either their squads didnt follow in or like myself dont have a squad in the MA.  We are all trying to work together and have fun.  We do a lot of the side switching to balance out when 2 or 3 or even more guys from a single squad come into one side and for obvious reasons dont want to split up, biggest complaint of caps in the MA.


P.S.  Dhryan, sorry about the kill when landing the other night.  I followed you all the way back to the carrier and honestly thought it was one of the other two guys on your side at the time and they have both killed me multiple times with gear down trying to land.  

[CAP1]

in all honesty, i feel good when i see 4 of em on my six. sounds weird i know.........but i can remember when my suckage was such that out of the 4, only one would come and fight me....and kill me rather quickly.
 now, one may come in, and after a couple of turns, in come all of his buddies.....i can imagine him yelling "THERE'S NO WAY A P-38 CAN DO THAT!! HE'S CHEATING!! C;MON GUYS, HELP ME OUT HERE!!"

 

 now....with the 3-1 or 4-1........if i fly into your hornets nest, i don't really care. a shiny new plane is a mere click away.

 what i'd be really dissappointed to see in here, would be the guy that runs 'cause we're co-alt, or i'm slightly higher, or we're 1-1....so he runs to friends. that's pure ma attitude, and why i don't fly the ma's anymore.

 hell.,....i engaged jc7 from high.....did he run? hell no! he fought and evaded, wiggling that little 109 around till help arrived.....i saw em coming, and had an advantage to begin with, so it was no big deal.
 same situation in the ma's, he'd have run to ack.

 aajager left me to a fight with jolly. he asked if i wanted help, and i asked him to stay out. this was a co-alt merge, and i eventually lost that fight.....bvut thanks to jager being polite, it was one hell of a white knuckle fight.

[grumpy37]

in all honesty, i feel good when i see 4 of em on my six. sounds weird i know.........but i can remember when my suckage was such that out of the 4, only one would come and fight me....and kill me rather quickly.
 now, one may come in, and after a couple of turns, in come all of his buddies.....i can imagine him yelling "THERE'S NO WAY A P-38 CAN DO THAT!! HE'S CHEATING!! C;MON GUYS, HELP ME OUT HERE!!"

 

 now....with the 3-1 or 4-1........if i fly into your hornets nest, i don't really care. a shiny new plane is a mere click away.

 what i'd be really dissappointed to see in here, would be the guy that runs 'cause we're co-alt, or i'm slightly higher, or we're 1-1....so he runs to friends. that's pure ma attitude, and why i don't fly the ma's anymore.

 hell.,....i engaged jc7 from high.....did he run? hell no! he fought and evaded, wiggling that little 109 around till help arrived.....i saw em coming, and had an advantage to begin with, so it was no big deal.
 same situation in the ma's, he'd have run to ack.

 aajager left me to a fight with jolly. he asked if i wanted help, and i asked him to stay out. this was a co-alt merge, and i eventually lost that fight.....bvut thanks to jager being polite, it was one hell of a white knuckle fight.

So your still claiming you dont cheat.....   

[Dichotomy]

watch out.. he'll put you on the disco list

[grumpy37]

lol, i thought he still had a switch on his stick set to "disco grumpy"

[ImADot]

I agree with everything said here.  More people is usually more fun.  4v1 isn't always fun - maybe once in a while.  The biggest problem I see here is the disparity between squads coming in fighting as a squad - who have been flying together for months/years - versus all the rest who are essentially lone fliers that happen to be on the same side.

As people spend more time in there, and more time with each other, they will (I've started to see it already) develop some bits of cooperative flying, and some of those fights were epic.

I'm not one to biotch about every little thing, and enjoy the fights.  I usually enter most fights at either an alt disadvantage or a numbers disadvantage.  Half the fun is trying to survive those and maybe take one or two down before I'm blown up.

The AvA has gotten new life breathed into it; the settings, the hard-working staff, and the players that frequent it have all contributed to something that this game has lacked for a long time and I only see it getting better over time.