109K4 V Spit 14

[Big Rat]

I agree that if the Spit XIV is unperked I'd doubt you would see a lot more of it, (except the first week or so).  The only time I ever used them was to run down sets of bombers, when I have to get from the ground to their alt in a hurry.  The K4 is great as an interceptor in this requard as well but the Mk108 is much harder to make crossing shots with, then a pair of hispanos for most.  So for the first part, I vote unperk the Spit XIV.  As far as the K4 and the 20eny, for the average player it is a 20 eny plane.  Try to think back to the first couple of times you took one up, if you were like me and looked at the specs and thought what an animal this will be.  You grab one and take it up to about 10-15k and think "wow this got up here fast this is great".  Then you see your buddy 5k below you yelling for help with a Spit on his tail.  You call out "I'm on him" and pull your nose over at the bandit, and line up for a dead 6 shot.  Being new to the K4 or late 109's in general you didn't throttle back nearly enough.  "Wow this thing is a rocket", you say to yourself as you come screaming down at the spit.  You then attempt to move the controls to line up your shot and "UH OH", it ain't movin .  You then fly past the spit at Mach1 and hit the nearest, bush, tree, or hillside, and to add insult to injury, gave the spit a proxy .  That was pretty close to my first K4 experience , fortunately that was a long time ago .  You can't really rate an ENY on how efficient the best sticks for that model are with them, you have to rate them for average Joe in here.  If you get good at a high ENY plane you should be able to reap the rewards, everybody here was new to every plane in here at one time.  Some just chose the more difficult road, and learned it well   for those that went down the hard 109 road, I'm still recruiting

 
BigRat         

[Ruah]

make it happen!

[Yarbles]

I assume that this isn't about some abstract concept of fairness and I have been barking up the wrong tree with the K4. The argument is I suppose is that the K4 is not easy to master straight from the box and does not appear in such frequency as to unbalance the game. So yes its 20 eny for a newb but so also is the 14. The first flights I had in it were crashes from the nasty stall or ripping the fragile wings off pulling out of a dive. This was enough to put me off for a couple of years from a plane I had to spend then scarce perks on. Take the perks away and more people will try it and most will reject it for those reasons I did. My guess is unperk it and it will be like having a new plane for a week or two and then it will become slightly less of a hanger queen than it is now. It will give people who like the plane and the challenge it represents more chance to learn to fly around its inadequacies which is how most of us graduate from endlessly upping spit 16's,  LA7's, Nikki's and Zero's etc I don't include the P51 in the newb list becase it takes a bit more skill than the others to get initial reults.

 

[Changeup]

I assume that this isn't about some abstract concept of fairness and I have been barking up the wrong tree with the K4. The argument is I suppose is that the K4 is not easy to master straight from the box and does not appear in such frequency as to unbalance the game. So yes its 20 eny for a newb but so also is the 14. The first flights I had in it were crashes from the nasty stall or ripping the fragile wings off pulling out of a dive. This was enough to put me off for a couple of years from a plane I had to spend then scarce perks on. Take the perks away and more people will try it and most will reject it for those reasons I did. My guess is unperk it and it will be like having a new plane for a week or two and then it will become slightly less of a hanger queen than it is now. It will give people who like the plane and the challenge it represents more chance to learn to fly around its inadequacies which is how most of us graduate from endlessly upping spit 16's,  LA7's, Nikki's and Zero's etc I don't include the P51 in the newb list becase it takes a bit more skill than the others to get initial reults. 

The 51 belongs in that list because the additional skill it requires is about none.  Unless you try to perform ACM with drop tanks on...then I suppose you would be a giant stud for picking zekes.

Changeup

[Yarbles]

The 51 belongs in that list because the additional skill it requires is about none.  Unless you try to perform ACM with drop tanks on...then I suppose you would be a giant stud for picking zekes.

Changeup

I think people forget how a newb starts;

1) Charge around firing at everything with pure pursuit and getting about 1;25 KD from Ho's. Any plane will do for this though the LA7 is perhaps the best.

2) Flat turn fights where the Spit, Brew, Hurri 2 and Zeke especially do well but the P51 does not.

To use the 51 initially boom and zoom is the prefered tactic which requires gunnery, situation and e management skills. You can do better initially flat turning a Spit or Zeke or infact most other planes if this is your method.

[Changeup]

I see it differently but similar.  Reverse 1 and 2 and then add to your last paragraph:  After familiarizing yourself with the 51, the accepted tactic of the non-newb 51 driver is to attempt 3 turns as a show of their new-found turning skills and once they discover they are in danger of being eatin alive by a somewhat better twisty-turny plane with a twisty turny pile it at the helm the tactic shifts immediately to nose-down running to the next sector while screaming, "I'm EXTENDING!!!!" or "YOU DIDNT EXPECT ME TO TURN WITH YOUR Ki 61 or Yak DID YOU???" on 200.

Changeup

[LCADolby]

If the spit 14 was unperked i'd fly it 100 times more, i love that pinocchio nosed bird.


...Think i bring it out from underneath the dust sheet once or twice a tour.

[Vinkman]

I think people forget how a newb starts;

1) Charge around firing at everything with pure pursuit and getting about 1;25 KD from Ho's. Any plane will do for this though the LA7 is perhaps the best.

2) Flat turn fights where the Spit, Brew, Hurri 2 and Zeke especially do well but the P51 does not.

To use the 51 initially boom and zoom is the prefered tactic which requires gunnery, situation and e management skills. You can do better initially flat turning a Spit or Zeke or infact most other planes if this is your method.

51s are good all around planes with two top attributes...Speed and E retention. Those two attributes give the Pony a lot of survivablity, especially when BnZ-ing which is the method of choice for the majority of 51 pilie-its. Usually the only 51 I get killed by is the one I didn't see. 

The question of whether the Pony's speed makes it Perk worthy is an interesting one. My first thought is no because it is used more defensively than offensively.  But "ballance" and what that means is complicated question as to what is trying to be achieved with ENY and Perks.

[Ruah]

P-51 and K4 are not perk worthy and are fine as they are.  But the 14 is also not perk worthy and should be made an ENY 5 plane for a few tours to see how it fares - if it clearly dominates, then we will hear about it and it can be perked again, but I very much doubt it.

I have been working on the 109 a fair bit this past month, I think i will stay in one for awhile yet. . .

[zorstorer]

...Also I support the idea (and I've mentioned this idea a few times before) that ENY should vary tour to tour based on popularity in the previous tour.  Aircraft flown all the time should have a low ENY, those mostly ignored should have a high ENY.  This will result in "bargains" that change each tour, resulting in seeing more varied aircraft overall, and make the game more interesting.

I like this idea as it gives the bargain hunters a reason to up the "rare" MA aircraft.

<S>

[Yarbles]

Just to be clear I acknowledge the 14 has some strengths but so does the K4 and like the K4 it takes time and patience to access what the 14 has to offer and use it effectively. The same could be said of the 262 and Tempest but once you have mastered them you would have rides likely to dominate a situation which is far less the case with the 14 and K4 and like the K4 the 14 is unliely to upset the balance of the arena.

There is a good reason why many sticks will pay 200 perks for a 262, 50 for a tempest but rarely as little as 10 for a 14. The reason is it is not percieved as worth it not offereing enough advantages over a 16 or 8 or a P51 which share many of its attributes as well as out performing it in many areas simultaneousy. The 8 and 16 match the 14 for acceleration and climb but handle far better and the 51 is much more stable and agile at low and high speeds. The 14 is just another combination of attributes but in no way obviously superior as a 5 ENY plane to the 51 and 16.

If I am in a spit 8 and see a 262 or Tempest it represents a threat especially in the case of the Tempest which in reality is less easy to deal with but easier to kill, A 14 or K9 are not of themselves alone a significant concern.

[toonces3]

If the spit 14 was unperked i'd fly it 100 times more, i love that pinocchio nosed bird.

Agree wholeheartedly.

I've flown the 14 a bit and I find it a complete beast to handle.  I suppose like any really good plane, it takes a certain mastery to get the most from it. 

Anyway, I sure would like to see it unperked for a while and see what happens.  I'd certainly fly it more.  As it is now, if I'm going to spend perks, I spend them on a more user friendly plane like the Hog-C or Hog-4.

[Yarbles]

I've flown the 14 a bit and I find it a complete beast to handle.  I suppose like any really good plane, it takes a certain mastery to get the most from it. 

I don't think it is a really good plane I think it is fundamentally flawed and that is why the air frame was modified later. If it was really good I think it would desrve the Perk. The 9 was a stop gap rushed into production that worked the 14 is similar but in many ways is inferior to that which it is based on the 8. The 9 is an up engined 5 that gains allot and loses very little.

You might say then why bother to fly the 14 and I would say its a challenge and of historical interest but its not some uber perk worthy plane just a spit with an engine too big for the airframe. 

[Saurdaukar]

You keep harping on the K4 for what reason?

If this a thread to unperk the 14 or to perk the K4?

[Ruah]

i assumed it was to unperk the 14.  The K4 is fine as it is for sure.