109K4 V Spit 14

[Changeup]

The Spit 14 is equal or slower at altitudes below 20K, to the Dora, P-51, Typh, and K4. and slower than the La7 below 8K.

I've never found the 14 to turn or handle as well as the 16 or any other SPit, which is really the advantage of a Spit. If a K4 or Pony dives away from a spit XIV, the Spit can't catch them. This is due to that the spit being speed limited in a dive because of that wing balooning issue that slows the plane and forces pull out in all SPit designs. for that reaason i'ts not a better BnZ plane than the other spits already available for no perks.

The only advantage of a Spit XIV over other spits is a higher top speed. But that speed isn't high enough to run down the planes that are already faster than a SpitXVI [pony, K4, Typh, Dora] So the advantage is not a very usable advantage.

I think this is why no one drive this bird, the perks aren't worth it, even though it's only 10 perks.

I'd vote for a no perk trial run.

+1...Im a Spit 9 guy myself and even with no perks, I will fly the 51D or 47M at alts.  In fact, you can drop the 14 from the lineup as far as I'm concerned...its a witched plane.

Changeup

[Yarbles]

It seems if the Horde did adopt the unperked Spit 14 they would have to improve their general skills to get anything like as much out of it as they might from the 16. The only place a realtive noob might get any advantage over the Spit 16 is slightly higher acceleration and eventaully top speed in point and squirt mode. The la7 would still be the better option in this regard.

Please unperk it or lower the perk as those few people who enjoy the challenge it represents can fly it more even if they don't have a 10;1 k/d ratio  

[Krusty]

The 14 is a very different beast in terms of handling. It has some serious vices that make it a much more difficult ride (particularly at typical MA combat alts) than other variants.

I'm sometimes baffled how some do completely ignore the several weak points of the 14 in their argumentation, falling back to "but I got X kills and Y K/D in it"

You clearly have an agenda/opinion, but you have to be careful not to pick only the facts that help support your opinion, and not those that hurt it. You're presenting the argument in your own favor.

The 262 is atrocious to fly. It's a total pig. Should it be unperked? No.

The Tempest is a terrible plane that requires a LOT of effort and practice to fight in (not run, to "fight" in). Only the best that really put in the effort can get the maximum out of this plane. Should it be unperked by this alone? No.

Simply stating the spit14 is a bad handling plane, thus should be unperked, is a false argument. In that case you've set a precedent that the BEST handling planes SHOULD be perked. Bye-bye all spits, zekes, hurricanes.

The spit14 was perked for a reason. At the time it was perked, there was no spit8/16. It earned that perk price. Now the question is: Why haven't the new spits, which are even better?

[321BAR]

And there is the problem. There is no such thing as "a Spit". The 14 is a very different beast in terms of handling. It has some serious vices that make it a much more difficult ride (particularly at typical MA combat alts) than other variants.
In the MA combat environment, the 16 is a much more capable plane. The K4 has the taters, but is a much more stable gun platform than the 14. I'm sometimes baffled how some do completely ignore the several weak points of the 14 in their argumentation, falling back to "but I got X kills and Y K/D in it"

And still I'm wondering why of all planes only the perked 14 allegedly is flown only by pilots "not knowing how to use it." It's not that it doesn't happen with almost all other planes too. particularly the 16, which is known as "n00b" or "dweeb" ride, yet it's K/D is very close to the 14, which can't be flown by 2 weekers at all. And "it's a monster if a player really hows to handle it" - with that argument we would have to perk the K4 instantly.

it flies like a mustang. pure and simple. If you fly a Spit14 like a P51 you can see some similarities and see the difference. Yet it out does a mustang in every way except in terms of high speeds. If you use a P51 at low alts often, then use the Spit14 at low alts often, you can see a similar style of flying. That and the Spit14 carries 2 hispanos which up the ante. In very simple terms its a juiced, shorter flying, mustang

[Lusche]

You clearly have an agenda/opinion, but you have to be careful not to pick only the facts that help support your opinion, and not those that hurt it. You're presenting the argument in your own favor.

The 262 is atrocious to fly. It's a total pig. Should it be unperked? No.

The Tempest is a terrible plane that requires a LOT of effort and practice to fight in (not run, to "fight" in). Only the best that really put in the effort can get the maximum out of this plane. Should it be unperked by this alone? No.

Simply stating the spit14 is a bad handling plane, thus should be unperked, is a false argument. In that case you've set a precedent that the BEST handling planes SHOULD be perked. Bye-bye all spits, zekes, hurricanes.

The spit14 was perked for a reason. At the time it was perked, there was no spit8/16. It earned that perk price. Now the question is: Why haven't the new spits, which are even better?

You are wrong on so many levels. The Me 262 is not "atrocious to fly". A pig in some ways maybe, but it has no serious handling issues like the Spit 14. And more important, it has a massive speed advantage over every & all enemy - a single, outstanding  performance advantage that justifies perking all of it's own, offsetting all the difficulties there are. The Spit 14 has no such single huge advantage.

Similar goes for the Tempest - Stating that the Tempest is a "terrible" plane makes me laugh out lout. A rock stable gun platform, no nasty stalls, strong aiframe and supreme speed.

Simply stating the spit14 is a bad handling plane, thus should be unperked, is a false argument

Good thing I never used a single simple argument like that.

Why haven't the new spits, which are even better?

Because it's not necessary. There is no massive impact on gameplay

it flies like a mustang. pure and simple. If you fly a Spit14 like a P51 you can see some similarities and see the difference. Yet it out does a mustang in every way except in terms of high speeds. If you use a P51 at low alts often, then use the Spit14 at low alts often, you can see a similar style of flying. That and the Spit14 carries 2 hispanos which up the ante. In very simple terms its a juiced, shorter flying, mustang

The Spit 14 flies like a Mustang? You ain't serious. Yes, it has to be used more in the way of a Mustang than a Spit 16, but in that way it's a significantly more difficult plane to handle (high speed maneuverability, stall behaviour and stability as a gun platform).

[321BAR]

The Spit 14 flies like a Mustang? You ain't serious. Yes, it has to be used more in the way of a Mustang than a Spit 16, but in that way it's a significantly more difficult plane to handle (high speed maneuverability, stall behaviour and stability as a gun platform).

It was a simple way to sum it up. in the end, the Spit14 flies much more like my baby than other aircraft. and can be used very well in this fashion. Just dont stall it. Gun platform is different than the 51s but still very powerful. And the spit14 can do alot that the 51 cant

[nrshida]

Just dont stall it.

I think this is the small caveat that makes the division. I have found using a P-51D to stall fight in much more docile and predictable than the Spit14.

If it isn't as fast as the Mustang at typical Aces High fighting altitudes, the weapons package isn't any more devastating than a Spit16 and the stall characteristics are worse than average with no significant advantage in return, then why is its usage restricted with a perk cost?

I think anyone would struggle to give one concise reason based on the aircraft's performance / handling or unbalancing effect on the Main Arena.

[Ruah]

I think anyone would struggle to give one concise reason based on the aircraft's performance / handling or unbalancing effect on the Main Arena.

they can't imo, its not the fastest under 15k by a long shot, its quite a bit slower then the LA7, D9, and 51D below 10k where i think most combat takes place, it also does not acelerate as fast as th La 7 and is only 1/2 a second faster to 250 and considerably slower to 350 then the D9 - yah it acelerates faster then the 51D - but then again - most things do.  Its not more dangerous then any of those three in terms of guns, in fact taking ammo into account, its pretty low in terms of killing power, it suffers from typical spit fragility espcially around the wings which is insta K/O.  Its greatest asset is its climb rate, but climb is relational to stall - to really exploit the climb of any plane and fight in the vertical you have to have decent stall control (and more then and on/off flap system)- at least not one that puts you in whipping rotor induced flat spin that I can't seem to escape from for the life of me (I can, it takes 6k alt to do it if I am lucky, and I have to chop the throttle and wiggle the nose forward) hich means its one saving feature is also exposes its weakest aspect.

Overall, the 14 is not perk worthy.  I can see some die hard spit pilots seeing it as the K4 of the spit class - the challange to that plane set and a challange to master - but even when they do master it, it will still performe as a great ENY 5 bird.  And nothing like the other perked planes in terms of massive performance boost: the tempest for example is much much faster then the La 7 and Spit 14 at all alts except to the spit after 25k (with wep the spit 14 does go faster then the tmpst between 10 and 15 k), and again the spit 14 only has the climb rate as an advantage over the tempest.

I just don't see why its perked.  But then again, I am a newer pilot so I may be missing something.

[R 105]

 As far as the 262 not being worth the perks, I found one great use for it even if I can't hit with the guns very well. I find if I fly past a horde low and some what slow who are trying to take a base. About half of the attacking plane will peel off and chase me. I stay just slow enough to give them the illusion that they can catch me. The Tempest work also but to a much lesser degree than the 262. I find the 262 not at all hard to fly but you need to plan your landings. The Spit 14 just don't draw a crowd like that.

 I found another way to kill the spit 14 at low altitude in a pony the other day. I saw the pilot was turn very tight on the merge so I turned back into him dropped some flap and turned hard right just before the merge. He tried to follow me and stalled out and hit the ground. I did it again to the same guy later that day. I learn that reading this post and fooling with the 14 off line. I would not depend on this maneuver because the next guy may know not to do that in a 14 and I would not try it with a Tempest on you. I also find the Tempest a very easy plane to use in about all categories. I did find way to out run a Tempest in a P51-D at altitude for about a sector but will keep it to myself. They have fuel issues and don't chase you long most times. Of all the perked plane in the game the Spit 14 is the only one I can't see the reasons for the perks in my humble opinion.

[Muzzy]

I'm thinking one reason for the success of the K4 is the quality of the pilots who actually master it.  As has been said before, it's a difficult plane that requires a great deal of skill to master, but it also has very good speed and climb rates, which allow the pilot to dictate the terms of the engagement. Combine the K4's strengths with a very good pilot, and it's no wonder that the bird becomes a problem.  Then again, the same good pilot in any ride would be dangerous...

As for the Spit 14, I think the reason it hasn't had as much attention is because 1) there are easier spit variants to fly that are just as effective, 2) it doesn't have the novelty of the tater gun and c) it doesn't do as well at the low alt that most MA engagements are fought at. From what I understand, there's no real advantage at flying the 14 unless you're at 12k or so, is that correct?

[Ruah]

more like 25 k

[Yarbles]

As someone said the perk is historical in that the 14 has clear speed, climb and acceleration advantages over the 9 but with the 8 and 16 available it no longer justifies the perk as the 16 and 18 are better in most circumstances un perked spits.   

[321BAR]

i concede

[Yarbles]

i concede

 

I hope HTC will at least try a reduced perk or none for a tour or two and monitor how this effects usuage. The availability of the 14 might get some people to try something more challenging in comparison to the 16. The 51 will have dive, higher compression, better handling and specifically role rate to combat the 14 and if everyone and his dog ups a 14 HT can just put the perk back on and we will be able to see why its there.

As to the k4 like the 14 no newb is going to jump in and get immediate superior results, ENY 20 still seems high though given how effective it is at what it does. Squaddies have suggested other squaddies have gone soft flying the k4 which within its type of fight is easier than some to get kills in.o  

[R 105]

 I agree about an ENY of 20 from the ME109K-4 because it is not a plane that is kind to a new player as are the Spits. I fly all the 109s pretty good now but I still can't hit a thing with the K-4s big gun. All 109s are much harder to become a good shot with at first.