WW1

[DREDIOCK]

I haven't  read this entire thread so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet or not.

I tried WWI arena and it was pretty amusing but got old for me after a very short while. there just isn't enough (for me) to hold my interest and say "just one more time"

I think people took a look at ROF and said "Wow! I want that". And while I agree substance is more important then fluff. There is definitely something to be said for fluff. Here, there simply isn't enough of it. And game play is too restricted in how much there is to do. Not enough variation

IMO what this arena needs is two fold. Just a tad bit more fluff, And a story line of sorts. It practically screams begging for it. Something along the lines of the scrapped TOD plan HTC was working on would be perfect. Even more so then in any of the WWII arenas. Something more mission oriented. Think "Wings" (an old WWI game by Cinema-ware) Meets FSO.

HTC finds a way to insert that into the WWI arena gameplay. And I think they catch lightning in a bottle.

[Anaxogoras]

I think people took a look at ROF and said "Wow! I want that". And while I agree substance is more important then fluff. There is definitely something to be said for fluff. Here, there simply isn't enough of it.

In this case, there is not merely a shortage of fluff.

[DREDIOCK]

In this case, there is not merely a shortage of fluff.

As noted in the rest of my post

[SCTusk]

Interesting comments and ideas as always. My thoughts on some of the issues raised as follows:

When I log into the WW1 arena I'm hoping for a realistic experience (without the fearful wounds). Take away the realism and you may as well be firing photon torpedos at Ninja Turtles.

To my knowledge in WW1 Camels fought Dr1's not Camels (occassionally, there weren't that many Dr1's and quite a few fell apart) and there were only two sides.

Balancing the sides is not an issue. If there were only two countries there'd be no lack of players switching sides to maintain roughly even numbers as they do already.

I'm fairly sure that moving the game closer to historical accuracy wouldn't damage it.     

[Anaxogoras]

If Aces High introduced arty spotting like they had with the first DoA, then you could have a "realistic" impact on the ground war, introduce some kind of strategy, and so on.

[CptTrips]

When I log into the WW1 arena I'm hoping for a realistic experience (without the fearful wounds). Take away the realism and you may as well be firing photon torpedos at Ninja Turtles.
To my knowledge in WW1 Camels fought Dr1's not Camels (occassionally, there weren't that many Dr1's and quite a few fell apart) and there were only two sides.

I know what you're saying.  But then again, you a relatively new to the AH environment.  The 3 sided MA has proven very successful over the years.  Its a proven design.  

Other formats like Warbirds III or AvA have had less success (though possibly from a variety of other reasons).

Balancing the sides is not an issue. If there were only two countries there'd be no lack of players switching sides to maintain roughly even numbers as they do already.

I'm fairly sure that moving the game closer to historical accuracy wouldn't damage it.    

People are willing to switch sides now because all planes are available to both sides.
Or more to the point, they can get a DR.I on either team.  

Right now, this very second, if HT reconfigured the WWI arena so that one side only had DR.I and DVII and the other only had F1 and F2B do you think things would be balanced?  I highly doubt it.  The very fact that so many people choose to only fly the DR.I suggests to me that they wouldn't want to be on the team where its not available.  However, it would be an interesting test.  HT could try that with the current arena for a couple of week without any coding change.  Just change the configuration.  I suspect, however,  the results would be ugly.

In the old days, when you and I were playing FC, they could get away with that because the flight model code for the camel and DR.I were the same.  Exactly the same.  Same weight, HP, model, everything.  No difference whatsoever.  That's another approach to play balance but would surely violate your realism criteria.


If you could get it to work, I'd have no problem with it philosophically. However, from a practical standpoint, I think an MA works best with three sides with all available aircraft.  

Scenarios and such are where you get your historical fix.

$0.02,
Wab

[Anaxogoras]

Other formats like Warbirds III or AvA have had less success (though possibly from a variety of other reasons).

That's because the vast majority of people who want axis/allied or Central Powers/Entente combat look for it in other flight sims besides WBIII or AH.  AH is the only contemporary multiplayer WW1/2 flight sim I know of where the "select any plane you want" format doesn't mean you're in the kiddie arena.

[CptTrips]

That's because the vast majority of people who want axis/allied or Central Powers/Entente combat look for it in other flight sims besides WBIII or AH.  AH is the only contemporary multiplayer WW1/2 flight sim I know of where the "select any plane you want" format doesn't mean you're in the kiddie arena.

Do you think splitting up the current WWI arena int to AvCP would be viable?

Wab

[Anaxogoras]

What is there to split up?  I think everyone agrees that the WW1 arena needs a lot more content in order to be viable.

[CptTrips]

I think everyone agrees that the WW1 arena needs a lot more content in order to be viable.

I agree it needs some more content.  "Lots" could be debated.

IMHO, there are other, more fundemental, design problems as well that would need to be addressed as well, or else the new content would only provide a temporary flush of interest.

Regards,
Wab
 

[onerka]

Been chasing WWI sims around for a long time.  Have accounts here and there like some of you...

The first thing is novelty of the fms, but that does not last long.  The thing that makes a sim sustainable is content, probably don't need a lot to begin the process.  Arty, bombs, and something to capture attracts another set of folks.  Even when the arena is relatively empty you can find something to do for a few minutes while you wait to see if others will join you.  As it is today, if there are only one or two people there or the arena is empty, it is not real exciting.

For instance, as some of you certainly know, the current version of DOA has a lot more context...but it is also empty most nights.  The folks who continually complain about resources being spent on wwi sims use these situations to argue wwi sims just don't work.  One thing is certain, when the AH folks were developing DOA it was a busy arena for several years and stayed that way for some time after they left.  The arena had more context then than it does today.  The dangers associated with stagnation are pretty much constant across all business ventures; if you put enegry, thought and resources into the continual evolution of a business/sim that will likely be rewarded.  When this is not the case, folks simply drift away over time, disappointed in the sense of promises not kept...potential not realized.

Have crossed paths with an enormous player base still quietly hoping for the same thing.  What seems most obvious now, long time looking, is that no one is interested in creating a viable wwi sim or they would have put the resources in it necessary to make it sustainable.

Kinda sad, but flying these old planes is a hoot.  So, will stick around here too...and keep looking elsewhere.  Maybe somewhere, sometime...No reason not to be optimistic...disregarding history and experience LOL.

One

[CptTrips]

Have crossed paths with an enormous player base still quietly hoping for the same thing.  What seems most obvious now, long time looking, is that no one is interested in creating a viable wwi sim or they would have put the resources in it necessary to make it sustainable.

RBII3D sustained a huge following for a decade even after the makers stopped supporting it.

Quite a few people have purchased  RoF and its add-on content.

Large fan bases follow all the started but failed to launch WWI arena attempts. 

There is a sizable market there to harvest.  Sooner or later someone will.

Regards,
Wab

[Tinribs]

I think that is a flaw of the current field layout.  The fight only ever happens between 2 of the bases and the other team has to fly too far to join the action.

I think one or more 3 field layouts similar to the Furball lake in the DA would be vastly superior.  All 3 sides could access the same battle space simultaneously.

If you have 6 players flying, I think you get much more exciting action with 3 teams of 2 rather than 2 teams of 3.  IMHO.

Yeah...well. I REALLY am not enthused by any kind rule burdened gentleman's club arena.  I really don't feel like milling around with a bunch of guys in powdered whigs and silk stockings waiting for my turn to be allowed to engage (only if I bow and say "Mother may I ?" ).  I couldn't give a fig for Marquis of Queensbury.

I wanna clamp my ka-bar between my teeth, pour kerosene over my head, light my hair on fire, dive into a swirling Hell storm at near Mach screaming Ride of the Valkyries while twirling a blood crusted battle axe over my head......nekid.


Maybe that's just me?


,
Wab

certainly isnt just you, personally I like to land a couple of kills put my smoking jacket on and get my butler to fetch the port and cigars but I dont have a problem with anyone setting fire to any parts of there anatomy biting grenades in half or spending time on facebook.In fact the more pyromaniacs we have in ww1 the better,yes we are that desperate.

[Yeager]

Start with adding the SE5a and Albatross....then add some strat, tanks, balloons, bombers....jeeze.  I know you dozen guys want your own little private WW1 arena but lets kick it in the nuts here.  Get this thing going already.

[Mano]

Allot of good reads here. <S>

AH2 has over 100 planes, GV's, and boats. It took them 10 years to reach that
stage of development. If they don't see any potential for more revenue, then
we won't see WWI go any further.

An update now and then would spark new interest. I think a BnZ plane
would help.......ie. Spad XIII or SE5a.

I have flown in allot of online WWI sims over the years and I hope another
good one comes along if this one is not developed. My first online WWI sim
was the original RED BARON on INN. We had to log onto a dial up network,
pay an hourly fee, and only 4 pilots could fly at once for a period of about 10
minutes. The graphics had a whopping 16 colors LOL. I bought my first computer
from Radio Shack and it included a free CD for Red Baron.
I later upgraded to a Pentium. Pentium was the state
of the art in those days. Dial up was good most of the time,
but sometimes, like on a Friday night, you would see planes
warp around as if they had a rubber band attached. Those
were the days  LOL


<S>
Mano