Lining up a 262 snapshot despite evasive (for lulu and anyone else curious)

[moot]

Lulu made this evasive, and apparently thought that only luck could make this shot stick.  But it's actually not that hard to track and counter.  The hardest part is working your approach - and this goes for any plane - so that the target is in sight during a max amount of time leading up to the snapshot.





The way I do this last part is by flicking the nose up to the solution.  I don't even think about where to aim anymore, it just happens on its own.  This takes more practice than actually rolling so that the target is in sight all the way to the shot, but I'm lazy and my gear is too crappy for that precision.  It does take more practice to flick the shot this way, but if your gear makes it too impractical (e.g. too much deadzone), it might be simpler to flick it than continually roll and rudder to track and aim. 


That's not just a lucky tail hit lulu


You can see it's not so hard to picture what the target's future path is:

The hits happen at the end of the spitfire's red trail.

[boomerlu]

Moot, by "flicking the nose up", you mean hitting hard elevator up?

[PFactorDave]

Moot, I would be very interested in watching the film.  If it isn't too much trouble.

[moot]

Yes, elevator or rudder.  It's not really good advice to jerk any plane around, but that's how I do it.  Not exceeding the envelope just takes a lot of practice, if you've never done this sort of thing. 
I deleted the film, but I do these pretty often. I'll post film of the next one.

Don't have ahf film for this one either, but it's probably about as much of a jink as you could rely on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNmK-ia5GAA

Overall I can't really recommend this ahead of properly working to a solution that doesn't require jinking.  Jinking like this is just a band aid fix, a last resort.

[MaSonZ]

if there was a in cockpit shot of that video moot it woulda been real nice.

[moot]

The films I made as a trainer are still available on the Ta 152 wiki page.
e.g. http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/moot/films_AHwiki/film15_rudder_152_jink_0501_0014.ahf

[PFactorDave]

The films I made as a trainer are still available on the Ta 152 wiki page.
e.g. http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/moot/films_AHwiki/film15_rudder_152_jink_0501_0014.ahf

None of the links on the wiki page worked for me

[mechanic]

by flicking the nose he means leading into the shot slightly low, then at the last minute 'flicking' the nose up into possition. That is how I understood it anyhow, and it's something I try to do often.

I have no idea hwo you do that with a 262, quite excellent mental gunnery. AHF would be great if you do it again.

[moot]

It works the same as putting a rifle roughly where you expect to take the shot, with the rifle lowered so you have an unobstructed view of the target as you track it, and bringing the gun slightly up at the last moment to take the shot.




 The important thing is to reduce things to the max so that that last motion is all that's happening, so that you aren't getting all tangled up trying to do many things at once.

I'm not sure what to do about the ahf's hosting.  All the free hosting services I've seen are too ephemeral and/or infectious.

[mechanic]

I can host on a homestead subscription if you ever want a film up. Your 30mm gunnery is something even Grizz would be jealous of (he told me you showed him the way :0).
 You can email me djhayze21[at]hotmail.com anytime you want a film up for the forums.

[lulu]

I was waiting for this ...

I said, if i remember well: "You are lucky" or "This was a lucky shoot".

Why?

Not to say that, this is a shoot that requires lucky only as moot saying.

In life a lucky component is necessary as anybody knows - exception for under 21.

I was defending a field and shooting down all the con that came in very very few number,
just one after the other, and there was a picking tard in a 262.  

So why he was lucky?

Because, borrowed for the pick action, that i was able to avoid, and field was very near and acks up,
i decided to try how much i misjudge some action against 262. So after two times in avoiding the 262,
I did my experiment.  

Something went wrong (because also i press a wrong button for error) but not so wrong as usual so that he got all my tail with a very good shoot - usual 262 get my plane more easily.

So no experiment and wrong button error, then no shoot for the 262.

For all these circumstances it was (also) a lucky shoot .

In fact, as i said to moot, who can thinking to fight a 262 in that conditions?

If no field is near and 262 has alt adv but spit defend well, then only fuel load can
decide the fight.


 



P.S.:

Re-observing the first pict there was also a lag amount vs me !

[AAJagerX]

Eek...  Why'd you go vert there?  You flew right into a position to get tatered.  I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but the better option would be a partial split-S down the side of the hill.  Then you'd put the attacker into a position that he has to push his nose over into negative G's, or roll his bird to get a shot. 

[mechanic]

He went vert because he wanted to try for a reversal and get a shot on the jet. Split-S is purely evasive, not counter-attacking.

[AAJagerX]

He went vert because he wanted to try for a reversal and get a shot on the jet. Split-S is purely evasive, not counter-attacking.

Bad idea in that situation IMO.  Even if he pulled off the reversal, in all likelyhood he wouldn't get the shot at the 262 while it's travelling at a flat trajectory.  It'd be interesting to know what their relative speeds were.  My guess...  Jet's cooking, and the spitty just bled most of his E.

EDIT: Durr..  I suppose I should've looked at the airspeed in the pics.  There's no way the spit would get a shot on that reversal.  Sometimes folks get lucky, but it'd be very unlikely in this situation.

[moot]

I was doing 400 or a little under with the jink, lulu was at 200 vertical at the hit.

One of the easiest ways to deny a shot is to hug the mountain.  That's a whole chunk of the possible "sphere" of possible maneuvers gone.