Proposal for new strat system.

[moot]

As things are the proximity of Me 163 bases pretty much voids any useful air cap on city resupply.

[SlapShot]

As things are the proximity of Me 163 bases pretty much voids any useful air cap on city resupply.

C'est la vie

EDIT: Bring more fighters ... point is, the mechanisms are there and no one said it should be simple (except fullmetalbullet).

[moot]

It is and I don't mind it.  It would just be better if they weren't available for that.  And I'm the first one to dweeb out in a 163, hotpadding to the front.  But it doesn't seem fair for someone who made the effort to hit the city.

[Smkn]

There is a few things that (IMHO) reduce my impulse to fly and try to bomb a strat.

1: 163's  The bomber pilot has spent alot of time to get where he is, maybe even hours. Certainly showing dar bar, maybe even walking though radar. Only to be shot down while he's in his sights, by someone who only upped in the last 3 minutes. The investment of time by the bomber pilot is huge, while the interceptor is minimal.

2: Resupply  Say the bomber pilot has dropped on the city, then fights and flys his way back home, lands and gets a few points for what could have been two hours of flight. The resupply goons get nearly the same bomber points for flying resupply in friendly territory with much shorter flight time. The bombed country makes points when it's bombed....

The Resupply problem does seem to be easily fixed. Don't give points for resuppling. Make it a chore for the bombed country, not a gift. I don't think I have an acceptable solution to the 163 problem. Best I can come up with is just remove it.

-Smkn-

[moot]

1-Take a gunner and fly tight with another formation if you can.  A good high alt fighter like the 51D, 38, 47N, 152H, can combine with a gunner and/or second formation to really reduce 163 effectiveness.  The odds are still on the 163's side if it flies right, but not nearly as stacked.  Other obvious choices: don't take bombers without full turret coverage, ie no Lancasters.

Removing 163s probably just isn't going to happen.  I personally think the 163s are only unfair as resupply convoy defense.. It just seems so gamey and unfair to have so unlimited uber rockets right next door to the resupply problem.  Not only do you have such easy resupply, but you also have 163s right there.  Maybe move the capital strats far enough that 163 have only enough fuel for a minute or two of loitering in that area?

2-Putting a muzzle on resupply points doesn't seem like the best thing - they're doing the right thing, why penalize them?  It'd be better to e.g. have more strat to destroy and rebuild, and/or add some more delay to rebuilding.

[SlapShot]

There is a few things that (IMHO) reduce my impulse to fly and try to bomb a strat.

1: 163's  The bomber pilot has spent alot of time to get where he is, maybe even hours. Certainly showing dar bar, maybe even walking though radar. Only to be shot down while he's in his sights, by someone who only upped in the last 3 minutes. The investment of time by the bomber pilot is huge, while the interceptor is minimal.

2: Resupply  Say the bomber pilot has dropped on the city, then fights and flys his way back home, lands and gets a few points for what could have been two hours of flight. The resupply goons get nearly the same bomber points for flying resupply in friendly territory with much shorter flight time. The bombed country makes points when it's bombed....

The Resupply problem does seem to be easily fixed. Don't give points for resuppling. Make it a chore for the bombed country, not a gift. I don't think I have an acceptable solution to the 163 problem. Best I can come up with is just remove it.

-Smkn-

Of all the times I have run supplies, it was never for the perk points, it was to get the radar back up. The amount of points you get for a resupply is negligible to say the least. It's not quite the "carrot" you are making it out to be.

Maybe HT can limit the amount of 163s than can be launched in a specific time frame rather than letting the skies be filled with 163s. I don't believe that 163s were as prevalent back then as we have access to now.

[The Fugitive]

I might be wrong but I don't think anyone suggested changing the fundamental way the strats work; only making them more valuable ( somewhat harsher reality when they are down) and not being able to resupply them.  If you're going to let the enemy take down your strats and the corrsponding targets at your airfield then yes, you get what you get.  You seem to be all about fighting; fight to defend your ability to wage war.

What a load of BS.  The reason no one hits strats anymore is that no one wants to fly 15 sectors into a counties backfield only to have them back up before they leave enemy territory.  I used to play around the strats all the time, both offensively and defensively.  I've only seen the strat complexes twice since they changed.  Why?  BOOORING.  

And what exactly does this have to do with the topic of this post?

And again, no ones suggested anything different; only making it more valuable to do so.  Again, if you don't want to fight to defend it then you get what you get.  It sounds more and more to me like you're the one trying to avoid a fight.  Yep, leave those strats deep in the backfield next to some friendly bases so they can be quickly resupplied, then we won't have to fight to defend them.  If they do go down we'll just wait for the enemy to leave then go resupply them.

That is the point! That is what I mean by "There are a lot of things that were done in the "war" that people are not going to do here. Flying defensive cap over a base for an hour only to land because your shift is over. Or pork troops along a front. Smart yes, but how often do you see it happen? Not very, why because it's boring. This is a game, and most people here are here to have fun."

Take half a horde, 10 guys, 8 in buffs and 2 in fighters. Flatten the city, and have the fighters cover killing goon resupplies. Buff empty out the rest of their load RTB at a start, fuel. Second wave returns with 4 buffs and the rest fighters. Finish off fuel fighters continue to cap killing goons. Now as each bases fuel is taken down it is NOT resupplied. They have accomplished what they wanted, and with a decent cap of fighters killing goons it will stay down a long time.

Why you don't see it? Because it's boring, and has no glory. How many people are going to pat these people on the back for their organization, skill, effort to the "win the war" effort? This very easily done with the system we have, but it's BORINNNNNGGGGGGG. If people did this more often it would generate more fights because the goon drivers would be yelling for cover.

Todays player looks for the quickest easiest way to do what they want. If there is no easy way to do something they ask for a change to make it easier.

Want kills? vulch a field is easier than "learning" how to fight, same goes for GV kills

Want bases? Get 20-30 people together and flatten it, no need to learn how to bomb well or fight uppers. Buddies will get what you miss, and FH are down first nobody to fight.

Win the war? make it so the enemy can't fight back by making strats hurt more with out having to waste man power to do it like it is now.

[fullmetalbullet]

C'est la vie

EDIT: Bring more fighters ... point is, the mechanisms are there and no one said it should be simple (except fullmetalbullet).

i never said it should be simple, i said it should be more valuble as a target and to the country. i never said it should be simple i like it the way it is now, but just the ability to resupply it should be taken out. you take that out and we wouldnt have to leave our fighter escort behind to deal with goons and get chewed up by ME 163s.

[moot]

I don't think I have an acceptable solution to the 163 problem. Best I can come up with is just remove it.

Or maybe make 163 depend on airfield fuel tanks differently from other planes - all fuel tanks down = 50% fuel for the 163s.  As it is, being limited 75% fuel from max. fuel tank porking is probably enough to really hurt their range.   The current 75% minimum fuel is enough to hamstring their range to high altitude, but probably isn't enough of a handicap for low alt escort of resupply convoys.

[The Fugitive]

i never said it should be simple, i said it should be more valuble as a target and to the country. i never said it should be simple i like it the way it is now, but just the ability to resupply it should be taken out. you take that out and we wouldnt have to leave our fighter escort behind to deal with goons and get chewed up by ME 163s.

If the game was played the way you want it to be, as a "war", you would have to leave a cap behind at each base to discourage a counter attack to grab the base back. Rarely is that done. If more people played the game your way counter attacks would grab bases back just as fast as you capture them in the first place. Why shouldn't you try to control the air space over a strat to work to deny the enemy it's supplies?

[fullmetalbullet]

If the game was played the way you want it to be, as a "war", you would have to leave a cap behind at each base to discourage a counter attack to grab the base back. Rarely is that done. If more people played the game your way counter attacks would grab bases back just as fast as you capture them in the first place. Why shouldn't you try to control the air space over a strat to work to deny the enemy it's supplies?

true but in base captures we do leave some behind to mop up and seach for those who want the base back. and i would love to see AH like that. but unfortunatly you got the mojority who just want to furball. secondly you wont have the fuel yourself to stay behind and cap the area with the escorts. so either limiting the effect of resupplying or taking it out completely should be done. the only way that bombing of the strats would be effective. you take the rupply ability out of the picture and you bomb the strats thats your handicap. and t would work the same way for all side. people are complaining thats the bishops have far to many players on its side. well lets see the rooks and knights mount bombing raids to even up the odds.

[The Fugitive]

true but in base captures we do leave some behind to mop up and seach for those who want the base back. and i would love to see AH like that. but unfortunatly you got the mojority who just want to furball. secondly you wont have the fuel yourself to stay behind and cap the area with the escorts. so either limiting the effect of resupplying or taking it out completely should be done. the only way that bombing of the strats would be effective. you take the rupply ability out of the picture and you bomb the strats thats your handicap. and t would work the same way for all side. people are complaining thats the bishops have far to many players on its side. well lets see the rooks and knights mount bombing raids to even up the odds.

A pony can hang for over an hour with out refuel. People complain about the hordes, not just the Bishops. Bishops just seem to get it together more often than the others. 

You keep blaming the "furballers" for not playing right, but if more people were of your mind and played as a war wouldn't there be more base takes, more hits on strats, more missions? Maybe it's because a lot of people play the game different ways which is what I think was the intentions of HTC. After all, if you make the game pleasing to more player types it would follow that MORE players would play....er pay 

Trying to force players to just fight the war, or just furball, or just GV is going to cut out a bunch of players that don't want to play that "other way" which ever that is to them. The trick is for everyone to play their way with OUT really messing with any one else's play.

[fullmetalbullet]

A pony can hang for over an hour with out refuel. People complain about the hordes, not just the Bishops. Bishops just seem to get it together more often than the others.  

You keep blaming the "furballers" for not playing right, but if more people were of your mind and played as a war wouldn't there be more base takes, more hits on strats, more missions? Maybe it's because a lot of people play the game different ways which is what I think was the intentions of HTC. After all, if you make the game pleasing to more player types it would follow that MORE players would play....er pay  

Trying to force players to just fight the war, or just furball, or just GV is going to cut out a bunch of players that don't want to play that "other way" which ever that is to them. The trick is for everyone to play their way with OUT really messing with any one else's play.

This may be because im more a stetegic type of player. but furballing dosnt offer much to gameplay at all, its just a bunch of people out for kills. your not doing anything else. just dogfighting, i beleive if you play a game called blitzkrieg for a while you will also see that just going out a dogfighting is pointless. where as when you going out with the intent to cause chaos amongst the opposing sides or to get something acomplished twards winning the war, that it adds more to the gameplay. and i beleive as do others who have posted on this subject that if you take the resupply ability away when it comes to the strats you will see more people doing fighter sweeps, keeping their eyes on the map for large dar bars, and upping to defend the strat targets. along with more people actually going out to hit the strats, and conducting large scale bombing missions more often in a week, then say only going out once a week on TT. and i do beleive a game should be fun but the ability to either tip the balance in your favor when your outnumbered or further weaken an opposing side that you out number should also be utalized. dont get me wrong i have alot of fun but it does kinda get dull when all i see is furball after furball and only small numbers of people on all sides trying to take a base. i hear people say those who horde have no skill. no its called using what you have. if you have an advantage use it to win. if world war 2 was only about skill and not numbers the germans and japanese woulda won. only because they had better pilots better tactics and better equipment. and that is really why we bombed factories and other strategic targets during the war. we really didnt need to do that as much as we did on the japanese. i beleive it was more to show the japanese that they lost then anything else.

[BaldEagl]

That is the point! That is what I mean by "There are a lot of things that were done in the "war" that people are not going to do here. Flying defensive cap over a base for an hour only to land because your shift is over. Or pork troops along a front. Smart yes, but how often do you see it happen? Not very, why because it's boring. This is a game, and most people here are here to have fun."

What I'm saying is that the strats are too far away and the end result in hitting them isn't worth the time or effort anymore.

When the zone strats were in place they created fights.  The new central strats don't for the reasons mentioned above.

Given your past rhetoric I can't believe that you are happy with the status quo.  I'd have thought that you of all people would want to create more fights.

[FLS]

and what im asking for is to take the ability to resupply strats via C-47 out.

yeah because you can resupply them. take that out and it handicaps thats side like its suppose to do.

You want to force people to attack bombers but you don't want to attack C-47s. They aren't even armed.