Playstation network.

[Tyrannis]

Hmm, okay, where to start?

Let's talk about the poor quality of Netflix video stream.  At its best setting, for native HD content, Netflix will stream about 4.8Kbp/s.  The native BluRay HD video stream can run up to 40Mbp/s.  Realistically, it rarely exceeds 28Mb/s.

Now, to be fair.  If you have a standard definition television (480i), you will never be able to see the differences between HD content and regular analog content.  If you have large screen HD television, which will support 1080p, then you can ("can" being the operative word) see a huge difference in the quality between a Netflix stream and the native HD stream from a BluRay player.

As to the resolutions.
Standard DVD: 480p (most DVD players only do 480i, data stream up to 24Kb/s)
Line doubled DVD: 720p (depends on the doubler, it also might be 720i, data stream up to 24Kb/s)
Native HD content: 1080p (data stream up to 40Mb/s)

Those are lines of resolution.  Netflix best data stream is far less than half the bandwidth of standard DVD.  Even a good line doubling DVD player will look better, with regular content, over the Netflix HD stream, if you have a really good HD television.  While the native stream of a good BluRay player is about 200 times faster than the stream from Netflix.

What difference does the stream rate make?  Ok, in any MPEG compression scheme the data rate dictates how lossy the data stream will be.  The slower the rate, the more information is thrown away.  What Netflix is counting on is you do not have a native version of the content they are streaming to you.  And/or you do not have a high quality television (most people do not).

Now, MPEG4 (H.264), for BluRay, is a better compressor than the MPEG2 (DVD content) is and does a better job of removing artifacts from the content stream.  This is also what Netflix counts on.  Fewer artifacts translates to a perception of good quality video.  This just means they can get away with a highly reduced data stream for native HD content with most people being content with it.

Native HD content, via BluRay, is very difficult to decode and display.  Just because a television claims it can do 1080p, does not mean you will actually be able to get the best visual experience available.

Bottomline is this.  If you are not willing to purchase a really high quality HD television, then there really is no need to go BluRay at all.  However, if you do go the high end route, BluRay content is so sharp and clear you almost feel like you can stick your hand into the scene.  It is truly impressive.

Personally, I hope BluRay dies a violent and sudden death.  The licensing fees are absolutely rediculous and amounts to nothing but greed run amok, which forces the price of the content to stupid heights.

Whether you like Netflix, or not, the quality cannot help but be worse than the native data stream from any high quality, local hardware.

PSN does have a "movies and shows" section in the store, where you can rent BLU-ray movies &download them straight to your ps3. (or buy)

[Skuzzy]

Are they really downloading 40GB+ to your PS3 when you chose to rent a BluRay movie?  That is about the size of a typical BluRay movie.  Are are they streaming a watered down version of the BluRay?

I have never looked at PSN.  I really don't even know how to get there.  I could figure it out, but I have no interest in anything online from a game console.

[Tyrannis]

Are they really downloading 40GB+ to your PS3 when you chose to rent a BluRay movie?  That is about the size of a typical BluRay movie.  Are are they streaming a watered down version of the BluRay?

I have never looked at PSN.  I really don't even know how to get there.  I could figure it out, but I have no interest in anything online from a game console.

im not very knowledgeable tech wise, but i think they download it. because you have to download the movie fully in order to watch it. idk what PSN did tho, but 2 months ago, downloading time sped up immensly. usually took 3-4hrs to download a game off psn. now it takes only an hr&half at the most.

[Babalonian]

nintendo 64 FTW!

N64 and the original PS are classics these days, and I felt old when those came out, lol.

[guttboy]

Bab,

Just for argument sake.....which system gives a better output on sound.....


I would argue the PS3 hands down....

[Babalonian]

My PS3 streams from my media server and is able to access all shared media on my home network, I can also transfer media to the console if I really wanted to.

As for skuzzy's issues with Netflix, I can't say that I have any of those issues.  Have you talked to a networking guru to resolve any issues you may have?   

In those situations, I figure, why not play them directly from your media server (assuming it's a high-end media-playing PC) to your TV and cut out the middle-man or so?  If you play AH on that rig, you can adjust your settup to play off the big-screen when the misses or kids are outa town for the weekend.  I can see it being practical if your rig and primary TV were a long distance apart, but otherwise...

Bab,

Just for argument sake.....which system gives a better output on sound.....


I would argue the PS3 hands down....

Well, since you obviously read my last post that touched on audio quality from blue-rays and other dvds but now are just purely asking about audio quality without any picture or graphic...

Since digital audio CDs have a higher quality sound than any blue ray or dvd or game audio files, both.

Since you can directly play from the CD or rip a HD copy straight from the CD to your console's hard drive (or tranfer a high-def digital audio file from your computer to the console via memory stick or network).

Isn't common sence fun?

[Skuzzy]

All CD's are digital audio.  Are you talking about SACD's?  Those carry the highest quality audio, but require a player which can play them.  They are not compatible with anything else.

HD audio is the next step down.  BluRay uses a similar format for its audio stereo tracks (192Khz sample rate, 32 bit resolution).  This is similar to what the digital recording studios use.  The Dolby tracks are recorded differently.

DVD's audio stereo channels are the same as a standard CD (44.1Khz sample rate, 16 bit resolution).

Standard CD audio is 44.1Khz sample at 16 bit resolution.  On occasion you can find 48Khz sample at 16 bit resolution.  Then there is the low end CD which uses less than 44.1Khz so they can cram more music on the CD.


So what specific audio standard are you talking about Babalonian, that is better than the stereo audio channels on an HD audio encoded disc (BluRay, at the moment)?

[Babalonian]

What's SACD?   

I don't quite understand your meaning of HD audio being the next step down Skuzzy (DvD HD maybe?), it don't make sence, but that's probabley the same reason why I got your pointed repsonce to my post, a missunderstanding (chill brotha, it's like you're mad at me or something still after last week after choosing to ignore my email responce about my little vacation ). 

Digital audio recordings on a CD in a file-format of 32-bit (or greater) and with a high sample rate is the best you can get (well, technicaly I think theres some 64-bits out there now, they were working on it last I heard anything about it in "the biz"... and IMHO if you notice the difference with your ears, go into the profession of safe cracking), but they do not conform to the established Red Book standard.

Standard audio Compact Disks (CDs) that are produced for an individual consumer's consumption and come with this* neat little logo we're all familiar with and must ocmply with the established Red Book industry standard ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(CD_standard) ).
*

If you buy a (Red Book-) standard audio CD then it must comply with 44.1/16.

I mentioned in a post yesterday that it is the same for DvDs, 44.1/16.  I also mentioned in that same post that blue-ray is the best consumer-available audio quality on a CD format available today, at as you pointed out 192/32.

I was doing this stuff almost ten years ago for non-union independent production sound recording on entertainment productions here in LA and "Howwywood", before blue ray, our standard was we would record straight to a CD burning rig we had settup to *.wav format in stereophonic (x2) 11.025 Hz at 16-bit.  At the time we were praised because CDs are cheap (compared to tape) and we would keep recording between takes and not hesitate to have the recorder running so we never missed a sound or line they wanted to use.  For the cost of ten tapes we could provide 100s of CDs worth of raw audio.

So when I tpyicaly say a HD audio recording on a CD I mean it's a CD you created or aquired that has burned to it digital audio files of a standard format higher than that produced on the common established consumer CD media standards.


If I use the apropriate emoticon provided by Waffle on this bulletin board for our use at this point in my post, will I get another vacation?

[Skuzzy]

SACD = Super Audio CD.  It is sampled at over 2Mhz.  Nothing approaches it, but then again, not much supports it.

The highest CD sampling rate, which will play on most, not all, players is 192Khz, 32 bit.  

The lowest sample rate for HD audio is 384Khz @ 32 bits.

Your posts are confusing as they are referring to "Digital Audio CD", which is anything recorded on a CD.  And you are stating it was the best you can get.  Simply not true.

I mentioned in a post yesterday that it is the same for DvDs, 44.1/16.  I also mentioned in that same post that blue-ray is the best consumer-available audio quality on a CD format available today, at as you pointed out 192/32.

This is really confusing.  BluRay is not on a CD format.  BluRay is completely different from CD.  The only things they have in common is they are both 5 1/4" in diameter and they both store digital data.  BluRay can store "HD Audio".  CD's cannot.  The data cannot be streamed fast enough off of a CD to feed an HD audio stream.

You seem to be mixing terms, which is causing a lot of confusion.  I am not upset. I am just confused by your posts.


I am enjoying the discussion, but I have to get ready to go to a Cobra gathering and run.

[redman555]

SACD = Super Audio CD.  It is sampled at over 2Mhz.  Nothing approaches it, but then again, not much supports it.

The highest CD sampling rate, which will play on most, not all, players is 192Khz, 32 bit.  

The lowest sample rate for HD audio is 384Khz @ 32 bits.

Your posts are confusing as they are referring to "Digital Audio CD", which is anything recorded on a CD.  And you are stating it was the best you can get.  Simply not true.

This is really confusing.  BluRay is not on a CD format.  BluRay is completely different from CD.  The only things they have in common is they are both 5 1/4" in diameter and they both store digital data.  BluRay can store "HD Audio".  CD's cannot.  The data cannot be streamed fast enough off of a CD to feed an HD audio stream.

You seem to be mixing terms, which is causing a lot of confusion.  I am not upset. I am just confused by your posts.


I am enjoying the discussion, but I have to get ready to go to a Cobra gathering and run.

Your to smart skuzzy.....way to smart...

-BigBOBCH

[DrDea]