p47 D-40 lessons going on right now in TA

[LThunderpocket]

Equal pilots ANY corsair is 4 times ANY JUG is, hands down. There really is no comparison.

In other words:

 Me in a corsair PWNS me in a JUG

 Lepape is a corsair PWNS lepape in a JUG

It really is that simple. This is a perfect example of how the plane "matters"

I know most like to say "plane doesn't matter it is the pilot" but I say BUNK to that! The plane choice can be an overwhelming advantage

IMHO



JUGgler

totaly agree with you on that.

[ink]

Equal pilots ANY corsair is 4 times ANY JUG is, hands down. There really is no comparison.

In other words:

 Me in a corsair PWNS me in a JUG

 Lepape is a corsair PWNS lepape in a JUG

It really is that simple. This is a perfect example of how the plane "matters"

I know most like to say "plane doesn't matter it is the pilot" but I say BUNK to that! The plane choice can be an overwhelming advantage

IMHO



JUGgler

I almost agree except what if the JuG is fighting in a "better" plane that he does not "know" but he is fighting JuG, in a "worse" plane that he knows very well.....hmmmm hmmm what if...

but ya I agree the plane has a lot to do with it, but truly there are so many variables when it comes to a "dogfight".
 
there is no "one thing" that makes a great dogfighter......the more of the variables you know and understand, and have the ability to manipulate, (that in it self being a variable",  dog fighter better you will make.

 

[Lepape2]

Yeah, the only thing that you can take to your advantage in the Jug is to play with the mind of your opponent. That's the only variable you can fool around with given said parameters. Jug is too good of a target, so use that first thought as a killing tool. But that still won't work VS very patient ones or the Runstang familly...

[JUGgler]

I almost agree except what if the JuG is fighting in a "better" plane that he does not "know" but he is fighting JuG, in a "worse" plane that he knows very well.....hmmmm hmmm what if...

but ya I agree the plane has a lot to do with it, but truly there are so many variables when it comes to a "dogfight".
 
there is no "one thing" that makes a great dogfighter......the more of the variables you know and understand, and have the ability to manipulate, (that in it self being a variable",  dog fighter better you will make.

 

Well this is why I used the examples I did! I am quite positive I would DESTROY myself with a corsair while flying a JUG 


I'm confused now, but I think you get the point 


I'm sure Lepape would say the same!


 


JUGgler

[mtnman]

Equal pilots ANY corsair is 4 times ANY JUG is, hands down. There really is no comparison.

In other words:

 Me in a corsair PWNS me in a JUG

 Lepape is a corsair PWNS lepape in a JUG

It really is that simple. This is a perfect example of how the plane "matters"

I know most like to say "plane doesn't matter it is the pilot" but I say BUNK to that! The plane choice can be an overwhelming advantage

IMHO



JUGgler

The plane choice can definitely be an advantage "when all things are equal".  

They seldom are equal though.  

Almost never.  

I'd go so far as to say it's highly unusual for there to be a fight where "all things are equal".  It's a perfect example, sure, but of an excruciatingly rare scenario.  And you're correct, it is that simple.

One of you has more speed, more alt, more brains, more experience, more finesse, more fuel, more ammo, is closer to a base, is closer to help, is more rested, is more bored, is more distracted, has sunlight on his monitor, etc, etc, etc...

And thank heavens for that!  The MA would be a boring place indeed if "equal" were the norm...

[JUGgler]

The plane choice can definitely be an advantage "when all things are equal".  

They seldom are equal though.  

Almost never.  

I'd go so far as to say it's highly unusual for there to be a fight where "all things are equal".  It's a perfect example, sure, but of an excruciatingly rare scenario.  And you're correct, it is that simple.

One of you has more speed, more alt, more brains, more experience, more finesse, more fuel, more ammo, is closer to a base, is closer to help, is more rested, is more bored, is more distracted, has sunlight on his monitor, etc, etc, etc...

And thank heavens for that!  The MA would be a boring place indeed if "equal" were the norm...

True enough although for a JUG to be on par with a corsair the advantages for the JUG would have to be numerous and or extreme ie: pilot ability, speed, alt etc etc.

The corsair on the other hand would require faaaaaaaaaaaaar less advantages to be far superior  the a JUG.

Yes my examples presume co-alt, co-E and obviously same pilot as I've stated.



 




JUGgler

[mtnman]

True enough although for a JUG to be on par with a corsair the advantages for the JUG would have to be numerous and or extreme ie: pilot ability, speed, alt etc etc.

The corsair on the other hand would require faaaaaaaaaaaaar less advantages to be far superior  the a JUG.

Yes my examples presume co-alt, co-E and obviously same pilot as I've stated.

 

JUGgler

I guess I'm having trouble buying into the argument, because you seem to insist on such an extreme example. 

Saying "Yes my examples presume co-alt, co-E and obviously same pilot as I've stated" seems akin to stating that "In a purely fanciful, make-believe, impossible to occur fight, plane choice would be a big deal".

I've seen you fly, and doubt that you're as unsuccessful overall as a statement like that would make you appear.  I bet you regularly come out ahead with your plane-of-choice, even against "better" planes.  Roughly what % of fights do you lose purely due to your opponents choice of plane?

The corsair is a very good plane, of course, but I've been beaten handily by several pilots flying jugs.  As a matter of fact, I see the jugs as some of the most deadly planes in the game.  To say they're radically outclassed by the corsair doesn't fit my view of them, to be sure.

[JUGgler]

I guess I'm having trouble buying into the argument, because you seem to insist on such an extreme example. 

Saying "Yes my examples presume co-alt, co-E and obviously same pilot as I've stated" seems akin to stating that "In a purely fanciful, make-believe, impossible to occur fight, plane choice would be a big deal".

This is my point and nothing more. to over analize it is not required.

"IF" <-- (big IF), all was same same except plane, the corsair has almost all of the better cards.




JUGgler

[Guppy35]

This is my point and nothing more. to over analize it is not required.

"IF" <-- (big IF), all was same same except plane, the corsair has almost all of the better cards.




JUGgler

How would you know?  You don't fly the Jug anymore

Jeez these 110 pilots think they know it all!

[Letalis]

F4U1D:  Turn, flaps, speed, E-retention, roll, acceleration.
P47D40: Visibility, guns, climb, toughness.
About equal in dive.
I'd say below 5k the Hog holds a significant advantage.  15k is about even.  Above 20k moderate advantage to Jug. (Supercharger)

I've long held that I should learn the F4U because it has a way to beat most of the planeset. Despite this, I have yet to have the same success in it mostly due to shooting accuracy/convergence issues. Heck, I do better in an F6F and few would argue it is better than the 1A/1D.

Right now 1v1 me in a Jug loses to me in a Corsair about 75% of the time. You take me in 10 jugs against me in 10 hogs and it starts to go the other way. How's that for a mind spasm?

 

[LThunderpocket]

F4U1D:  Turn, flaps, speed, E-retention, roll, acceleration.
P47D40: Visibility, guns, climb, toughness.
About equal in dive.
I'd say below 5k the Hog holds a significant advantage.  15k is about even.  Above 20k moderate advantage to Jug. (Supercharger)

I've long held that I should learn the F4U because it has a way to beat most of the planeset. Despite this, I have yet to have the same success in it mostly due to shooting accuracy/convergence issues. Heck, I do better in an F6F and few would argue it is better than the 1A/1D.

Right now 1v1 me in a Jug loses to me in a Corsair about 75% of the time. You take me in 10 jugs against me in 10 hogs and it starts to go the other way. How's that for a mind spasm?

 

i accualy think the corsair dives better.it picks up speed alot faster then a jug in a dive from what ive seen.

[Letalis]

Played with it offline. Dive acceleration difference in a full power pushover dive is negligible.  Interestingly though, the D Hog's compressibility onset occurred slightly later than the -40 Jug's (~575 vs 560) with slightly better roll authority. The roll authority result was as expected, the compressibility result was not. Still, both are excellent going downhill and using the Hog's tiny advantages in combat amidst a plethora of other factors (ie gross wt, dive entry airspeed) is hard to say the least, ergo: "about equal in dive."