unperk the spit14

[Wmaker]

Now those from the XIV pilot's notes.  Note the highlighted portion.  I have the XII pilot's notes too and it has the same as the VIII.  I have Spit 21 pilot's notes and they are about identical to the XIV for handling.  Those late Griffon birds were monsters.

The fact that the spin is described as "erratic" isn't anything particularly Spitfire Mk.XIV -specific or an indication of the power loading/engine power vs. airframe size. For example Curtiss Hawk75A's spin was described as erratic and jerky with a risk of the spin developing into a flat spin. I doubt you'll call P-36 a monster.

[Karnak]

so? the tempest is also out of its league down there and slower than many Late War A/C on the deck... yet it has 50 perks. so i'd like to know why perk the Tempest at 50 if it is on par with the Spit14 in the low alts? (especially when the Spit14 will out turn the Tempest on the deck and out fly it?). A low Tempest is a DEAD tempest.

you also remember that the SpitXIV out runs the tempest between 10K and 15K and blows it away over 21K? that and compared to the Tempest the Spit14's climb rate is ballistic. (you will get to 20K/25K with the slipper tank. take 100% fuel and throttle back like in an La and you'll glide basically to your area of operations and get there with 80% of your internal left. So ignore the fuel problems...)

The Spit14 also out runs ALL of its spitfire counterparts at ALL alts and can even keep with the P51s in speed at ALL alts.


You guys need to realize that it's not just about the speed, or the climb, or the turn. but everything about the plane at deserves the perk. (this last statement does not concern everyone in this thread)


Also Karnak, almost everything below 5K is gonna be in danger of getting shot down because i dont know about you but most of my enemies come in at 10K or above

Everything you said there is either wrong or also true of the Bf109K-4, unperked, ENY 20.  In fact, the Bf109K-4 is faster than the Spitfire Mk XIV at AH combat altitudes.

[Guppy35]

The fact that the spin is described as "erratic" isn't anything particularly Spitfire Mk.XIV -specific or an indication of the power loading/engine power vs. airframe size. For example Curtiss Hawk75A's spin was described as erratic and jerky with a risk of the spin developing into a flat spin. I doubt you'll call P-36 a monster.

I'm talking about in terms of the Griffon 60 Spits vs the Merlin birds.  That they added that bit to the pilot's notes to me indicates that the spins of the XIV vs the earlier birds was different. 

In terms of being a "monster', that was more reference to it being a flying engine, again not with the balance and handling characteristics of the Merlin Spits.  To fly it like a Merlin Spit is where I think most folks make their mistake.

I well remember a guy in an XIV trying to out turn me in a Spit Vb.  No way it was going to happen.  I imagine he was wondering why the XIV wasn't 'better' then the Spit Vb.  Of course he could have walked away from me in any direction, including up, but thought since it was a Spit and a higher number it must turn better too

[BnZs]

Gupp, I'm thinking that if the Spitfire XIV had been ruinously unstable as a gun platform (which it is in AH), some pilot report somewhere would state that.

[Guppy35]

Gupp, I'm thinking that if the Spitfire XIV had been ruinously unstable as a gun platform (which it is in AH), some pilot report somewhere would state that.

I have a feeling it has more to do with the guys flying it in AH then the bird itself.  What I mean is it sounds like it took some getting used to and smoothness at the controls.  Directional stability was a problem.  Interesting quote from Jeffrey Quill, who was Supermarine's chief test pilot:

"The tactical report of the Spitfire XIV by the AFDU is interesting and it is clear that they fully appreciated its excellent performance and general 'fightability'.  They also noted that the XIV with it's tremendous power, increased propeller solidity and increased all-up weight and moments of inertia, was a good deal more of a handful for the pilot and so required more attention to 'flying' then its predecessors.  Direction stability was a problem and the aircraft was apt to shear about a lot with coarse use of the throttle.  Large changes in speed required prompt attention to rudder trim.  We at Supermarine tried all manner of expedients to improve the directional characteristics of the XIV.  But the only real answer was to fit a much larger fin and rudder.  Work was begun on this, but it was a major design change and the Spitfire 22 was the first production version to be fitted with it.  So far as the XIV was concerned, I took the view that performance was paramount, and if the pilots had to work a bit harder and concentrate a bit more on their flying, that was better then sending them to war in an aircraft of inferior performance."

Seems to be what folks are describing in AH.

 

[Karnak]

I don't think so, Dan.  The nose wobble is independent of throttle use.  It is like it over corrects for tiny control inputs when you're trying to fine tune your aim for a shot.

[ink]

I haven't flown the 14 in a long time and haven't had much seat time in it at all, so I took it up tonight...she is a beast alright, at one point I pulled a bit to hard on the stick and instantly was spinning very fast,I was able to regain control, once someone figures out all the quirks of it, wow I can see why it is perked. 

[Guppy35]

I don't think so, Dan.  The nose wobble is independent of throttle use.  It is like it over corrects for tiny control inputs when you're trying to fine tune your aim for a shot.

I can't get the nose wobble.  Could be using combat trim does the job.  Oh well.  I'm trying here Karnak!

[Noir]

it's indeed unstable when you use the elevators. Small adjustments to line a shot up will result in a nose wobble on the Y axis, a bit like the one you can experience in the 190D9 and Ta152. A big change in the elevators at high speed can result in a massive spin stall like INK saw. A tight vertical scissor with some engine management can send you right to the floor in an unrecoverable flat spin. 

[321BAR]

baited, hook line and sinker

I believe the spit 14 needs a slight perk but i just love arguing

[Karnak]

I believe the spit 14 needs a slight perk but i just love arguing

Why?  It not only is massively outperformed by all other perk aircraft in actual outcomes, it is unique in being a per aircraft that is out performed by some free aircraft.

I find it funny that people will get a chorus of agreement that the F4U-1C should be unperked, but suggesting that for the Spitfire Mk XIV which sees much less use to much less effect gets a much more mixed response.

The only way that one can advocate the Spitfire Mk XIV remain perked and not be a hypocrite would be to advocate the perking of a significant number of other aircraft, such as the Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9, Ki-84, P-47M, P-47N, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, Typhoon Mk I, Ta152H-1 and possibly the Bf109G-14 and N1K2-J as well.

[Debrody]

Perk the G-6!!!   

[Karnak]

Perk the G-6!!!   

Now that one I'd never put on a perk list unless it was to shame somebody who was suggesting, oh, that the A6M5 or Ki-61 should be perked.

[dirtdart]

Perk the top killing airframes by tour...and the jets. 

[BnZs]

Perk the top killing airframes by tour...and the jets. 

Unperk everything for a tour or two, then perk by k/d AND kills per hour.