HO or no HO?

[Krusty]

Wiley my complaint is it was a good clean fight with no outside threats why not work for a good clean shot. Oh well again guess its just me and my silly expectations

If you were in the middle of a fight to the point you were both turning into each other, you were both working for it. A HO is only undesirable if it's the ONLY thing some uneducated and unwilling-to-learn pilot only HOs HOs HOs with no care for anything else. Clearly both of you are manuvering here so it doesn't matter what angle the final shot was fired. Nothing wrong with it. You get guns on the bad guy in a valid fight there's no reason to "hold the trigger" through some misplaced idea that it's dishonorable. Good shot, good kill. End of story to me. Might not have to LIKE that he got you, but you can't deride him for it.

[pembquist]

What Wiley said only with sarcasm.  Im pretty new and inept but I don't think there is anything wrong with the screen shots shot.  I thought an HO was supposed to be bad because you didn't need any kind of angle to blast the bogie you just needed bigger guns. If your turning tighter than the enme and can get your guns on them without them getting guns on you isn't that what your supposed to do? If your both pointed at each others guns then I can understand why thats not so satisfying but that isn't the case here. I was wondering how much lag distorts all of this, anybody know if one persons 15 degrees off the nose is anothers 0 degrees? fairly often?

[Midway]

I was going to say that providing single frames instead of film is usually a way to hide something and only show ones point of view.  That been said, from those pics, I'd say not a HO.  But we are missing the context.  We can't tell from these pics if that was a contest of forcing the HO so no-one fires or a contest of who is going to get the 2 degree deflection in first.  Meaningless post without the film, in my opinion.

Don't know how to post a film.  Will try and figure it out.  (just recently learned how to post pics)

[truss51]

I think the only potential for a "HO" is on the initial merge and is easily avoidable. After the merge,all bets are off. Fights on.

If I can get guns on you first, I will fire first. No question. Chivalry in the MA will get you killed quickly.

[321BAR]

Spit8 is just as uber as spit16. Doesn't matter if you were VIII and he was XVI, same plane for most of the performance specs. Only difference being roll rate.

That said, even if it was a cheap HO, even if it was a weak HO, it would still have been a good HO if only because of what you were HOing. No mercy for spit drivers!

Spit8 verts better and turns slightly better than the Spit16

[Wiley]

Wiley my complaint is it was a good clean fight with no outside threats why not work for a good clean shot. Oh well again guess its just me and my silly expectations

...and my point is, you gave him a shot.  Where is the line?  I want to know which angles I can give an opponent during a good clean duel where he's not 'allowed' to fire on me.

pembquist- In my experience, in a situation where the two of you are pulling as hard as you can, lag makes the other guy show slightly behind in his turn from where he actually is.  So in this case, the enemy's nose is further through the turn than he appears on your screen.

Actually, having said that last comment, I'd bet from DMGOD's FE he was probably pretty close to nose-on as well.

Edit: I typoed and had the logic backward in my comment to pembquist.
Wiley.

[JUGgler]

Technicaly not a HO, tarderly= straight up tard HO!

Exactly why would you shoot at this point? were you out #d? did he try to HO you previously? If neither of these was the case then IMHO the shot is tardish and not needed



JUGgler

[grizz441]

Imo it doesn't even matter if it was a HO or not, HO is just a word with a very short sighted definition.  The fact of the matter is, is that you had first guns by a large margin and DMGOD saw this.  Instead of maneuvering away from your guns and attempting to set up a reverse or rope, he continued to pull directly at your nose, forcing a ~front quarter shot.  I will shoot here EVERY single time as long as I do not think he can get nose full around for the front end ram.  Is it a HO? Technically yes but in my book it's called a Free HO, because I am not risking anything on the shot, because DMGod never can get guns on you.  The entire premise of why a HO is dweeby is because you are taking a 50/50 gambit of living or dying.  In this scenario you are taking 0% chance of dying, so why not shoot?  That's my take on it anyways.  The caveat to this however is knowing when to stick in line for the shot and when to break away from the shot, based on if he is going to get nose fully around to you.  This simply comes with experience and is based on plane, speed, and distance.

[RTHolmes]

Technicaly not a HO

the only official document ive seen which mentions head-ons was a USAAF doc that ?murdr posted. that showed any shot from the front quarter defined as a HO. no mention of the context, just the angular relationship between the 2 aircraft.

so technically it was a HO

[RTHolmes]

Wiley my complaint is it was a good clean fight with no outside threats why not work for a good clean shot. Oh well again guess its just me and my silly expectations

define precisely a "good clean shot". how many degrees AO are we talking?

[NOT]

I told you tangzu was midway.........




NOT

[vNUCKS]

As to whether it's a HO or not is irrelevant (though it clearly wasn't).  Your opponent put himself in your sights, you fired, he died...  WTG!!!

[The Fugitive]

Personally, I wouldn't have cried "HO", but its a s close as you can get. I would NOT have fired there. But that is the difference between a person looking for a kill, and a person looking for a fight. I generally don't shoot at anything under 90 degrees off. I maneuver to get a full profile, or a 6 shot. In the "pictured fight" (uploading a film is the same as a picture, you just need a site that stores files instead of pictures "myfreefilehosting.com" works) I would have gone into a hi yoyo or tail slide to drop in on his 6 and work for my shot from there.

I couldn't care less if you kill me, but I'd be very happy if you gave me a fight.

[Midway]

Personally, I wouldn't have cried "HO", but its a s close as you can get. I would NOT have fired there. But that is the difference between a person looking for a kill, and a person looking for a fight. I generally don't shoot at anything under 90 degrees off. I maneuver to get a full profile, or a 6 shot. In the "pictured fight" (uploading a film is the same as a picture, you just need a site that stores files instead of pictures "myfreefilehosting.com" works) I would have gone into a hi yoyo or tail slide to drop in on his 6 and work for my shot from there.

I couldn't care less if you kill me, but I'd be very happy if you gave me a fight.

Film: http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/5a87d49a69_6.09MB

First attempt at uploading film so not sure this will work. 

[grizz441]

Personally, I wouldn't have cried "HO", but its a s close as you can get. I would NOT have fired there. But that is the difference between a person looking for a kill, and a person looking for a fight. I generally don't shoot at anything under 90 degrees off. I maneuver to get a full profile, or a 6 shot. In the "pictured fight" (uploading a film is the same as a picture, you just need a site that stores files instead of pictures "myfreefilehosting.com" works) I would have gone into a hi yoyo or tail slide to drop in on his 6 and work for my shot from there.

I couldn't care less if you kill me, but I'd be very happy if you gave me a fight.

When you get guns on your opponent when he cannot get guns on you, the fight is over.  Continuing the fight any further is a pointless measure, especially in the MA, where the speed at which you kill enemies is the single most important metric in staying alive.