Should A20 loose it's F3 mode

[BushLT1]

That was my thought Stang ...just like il2 ...its not fair if I try and pick. Some people need to find better things to worry about in life. <It's a GAME> .....

[wil3ur]

They should Perk the Spit XVI

[Karnak]

They should Perk the Spit XVI

Perking the third most common fighter in the game seems silly without perking the first and second most common, no?

[wil3ur]

Perking the third most common fighter in the game seems silly without perking the first and second most common, no?

and while they're at it, they should probably disable bombs within 25 miles of V bases so we can GV without getting bomb****ed.  I hate bomb****s.

[AKP]

It just seems to me that if you are asking to remove F3 from all planes (bombers included) you are asking that no one fly bombers anymore.  Because no one would.  They would become easy targets for people who just want to fly fighters.  If you could see from all positions on the plane at one time... sure... lose F3... oh wait.. thats what F3 is supposed to simulate.

While we are at it... lets get it of refuel rearm... or make it take 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds.  Lets also get rid auto ack since there should have to be someone in the gun for it to shoot.  Lets get rid of vehicle spawns... make them drive all the way across the map.  Lets get rid of autotakeoff, and stall limiter... so only people who are already good at flying without them can play the game... no need for new players right?  Let's make guns jam, and engines malfunction and control surfaces just fail randomly during flight because of lack of maintenance.

Lets make all planes taxi from the hangar... turn on collisions... and turn killshooter off.

Because if the argument for removing F3 is that it isnt realistic... then there are a lot of aspects of this GAME that arent realistic.  Sorry for the rant... but I am just tired of this same old topic, and the same tired old arguments.  F3 is there on bomber aircraft for a reason... leave it there and learn to deal with it.  

[WYOKIDIII]

It just seems to me that if you are asking to remove F3 from all planes (bombers included) you are asking that no one fly bombers anymore.  Because no one would.  They would become easy targets for people who just want to fly fighters.  If you could see from all positions on the plane at one time... sure... lose F3... oh wait.. thats what F3 is supposed to simulate.

While we are at it... lets get it of refuel rearm... or make it take 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds.  Lets also get rid auto ack since there should have to be someone in the gun for it to shoot.  Lets get rid of vehicle spawns... make them drive all the way across the map.  Lets get rid of autotakeoff, and stall limiter... so only people who are already good at flying without them can play the game... no need for new players right?  Let's make guns jam, and engines malfunction and control surfaces just fail randomly during flight because of lack of maintenance.

Lets make all planes taxi from the hangar... turn on collisions... and turn killshooter off.

Because if the argument for removing F3 is that it isnt realistic... then there are a lot of aspects of this GAME that arent realistic.  Sorry for the rant... but I am just tired of this same old topic, and the same tired old arguments.  F3 is there on bomber aircraft for a reason... leave it there and learn to deal with it.  

This +1

[Krusty]

AKP, the point of F3 isn't that it's unrealistic, it's that it presents a significant SA advantage over just looking out the windows, and when used in "light bombers" to dogfight it's very much like cheating. I can vouch for this, as for many years I played in the HTH arenas with 99% of folks flying in F3 mode. I got to know it myself before sticking with F1 mainly.

Your argument takes it to the far extreme. There is middle ground, and the entire game is a balance of realistic simulation and gameplay concessions.

[AWwrgwy]

its no more gameyer than being able to up a formation of bombers....is that realistic?
no its not...but the only chance a bomber has is to have a formation right?
same as il2 and a20...only chance they have in this game is by having the extra SA ability of the f3 mode.
now that f3 was taken away from the il2s...the are hardly used...it will be the same with the a20.
thats the point im making as well as they should disable formations for bombers.
if you want a formation then you should have to have others up a bomber and fly in formation with you,everyone whinning realistic...well thats realistic.

I'd hazard to say that IL2 use has gone done more due to the inability to up it when the fighter hangers are down than due to the loss of F3.

I don't recall alot of people using the IL2 as a fighter before and those that did were the ones using F3 to push negative Gs to get an overshoot and kill you as you go by.

Why it can't still be done without F3 is a mystery.   




wrongway

[Chilli]

Thanks wrongway, I agree that iL2 losing its bomber hangar status did reduce it's usage after the Fighter Hangars were brought down on a field attack.  With that said, I feel the comparison has run its limits.  Although the A20 may handle like an attack plane, I could not invision it losing its bomber classification.

Now, that wrongway has pointed this out, I wonder if there could ever be a compromise in the case of the iL2?  What I am asking, should the iL2 regain its F3 mode but still be classified only as an attack aircraft (still unable to spawn from bomber hangars)? 

[Infidelz]

I agree - F3 should be disabled for all aircraft in the main arenas.

Infidelz.

[AKP]

AKP, the point of F3 isn't that it's unrealistic, it's that it presents a significant SA advantage over just looking out the windows, and when used in "light bombers" to dogfight it's very much like cheating. I can vouch for this, as for many years I played in the HTH arenas with 99% of folks flying in F3 mode. I got to know it myself before sticking with F1 mainly.

Your argument takes it to the far extreme. There is middle ground, and the entire game is a balance of realistic simulation and gameplay concessions.

I know it was extreme... it was meant to be.  It just seems like any time the removal of F3 is mentioned for the A20 (which I dont fly by the way)... or in the past the IL2, it spirals into "remove it for all aircraft"... which is just absurd... and just as extreme in my opinion.

I do fly the B25H a bit still (not nearly as much as I did when I first started playing)... but I use it for its intended purpose... ground attack.  I do get quite a few air to air kills in it... but 99% of them are with the tail gun, on pilots why fly up my dead six and linger back there.  Even the few air to air kills I get with the nose guns are all made sitting in the pilot seat in F1... and those are usually on people who try to HO me.  In my case... the use of F3 in the B25H is for what I think it is intended for.  To simulate the ability of multiple crew members to see around the aircraft... spotting ground vehicles which I can then turn towards and target using F1... or an incoming fighter that I can defend against by jumping into the tail gun.  I am sure it's possible to gun effectively from F3... but I never took the time to try, partly because it seems silly, and partly because I am one of those that NEEDS a gunsight LOL.

My point was more in response to the "remove it from all aircraft" posts.  However... I think the removal of any ability to gun or bomb while in F3 mode would be the answer rather than removing it from light bombers like the A20.  I think most people would support that change... the only exception being the people who DO use F3 mode while firing.

[captain1ma]

i think any plane in the bomber hanger should have F3. is it really that life changing that it does have F3? there are only a couple of guys that are any good with them anyway and they probably don't even use F3, leave it for the lesser players. why disadvantage everyone for the actions of a few guys?

[Lusche]

I'd hazard to say that IL2 use has gone done more due to the inability to up it when the fighter hangers are down than due to the loss of F3.

This.

A lot of the air kills by the Il-2 came from using the plane as a desperate last effort when the FH's went down and the field was vulched. It was the natural choice for that role, more because of it's armor and punch than due to F3. Now it's simply not available any more.

[icepac]

Just remove f3 mode from the pilot position.

This changes nothing for the heavy buffs other than taking away the ability to fly at 2000 feet bomb****ing ground vehicles.

Then maybe we would see the ju88 flown more often using dive brakes.

[wil3ur]

Just remove f3 mode from the pilot position.

This changes nothing for the heavy buffs other than taking away the ability to fly at 2000 feet bomb****ing ground vehicles.

Then maybe we would see the ju88 flown more often using dive brakes.

I get my visual lineups for bombing GV's w/ all bombers from lining up w/ things in my cockpit.  You'll stilll get bomb****ed by a heavy buff at 2000 feet without F3...  What'll be your excuse then?