Words of Wisdom from Luftwaffe Aces and Generals

[Vermillion]

Here are a couple of quotes from famous Luftwaffe personal, I thought I would share with you.

At the end of the war German Air Ace Walter Wolfrun, who flew the Bf109G and was an experienced pilot with many victories wrote:

 

"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U.  Both of these types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'.  The mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion of rate of climb and maneuverability."

Obviously he wasn't the only one to feel this way.  Lieutenant General Walter Schwabedissen, wrote in the book The Russain Airforce in the Eyes of the German Commanders:

 

Whereas the German Bf109G and Fw190 models were equal to any of the aforementioned Soviet fighter models in all respects, this cannot be said of the Soviet Yak-3, which first made its appearance at the front in the late Summer of 1944.  This aeroplane was faster, more maneuverable, and had better climbing capabilities that the Bf109G and Fw190, to which it was inferior only in armament."

The Yak-9U was introduced in October 1944, and 3,921 were produced. Maximum speed at sea level was 372mph, and was 434mph at 18,000ft. Time to climb to 5000m (16,400ft) 5.0 minutes.

The Yak-3 was introduced to combat in June 1944, and 4,848 were produced. Maximum speed at sea level was 379mph, and was 447mph at 18,750ft. Time to climb to 5000m (16,400ft) 3.9 minutes.

Both of these aircraft were produced in large numbers and saw extensive combat operations.  They were contemporaries of the P-51D, Fw190-A8, Bf109G10 (K4 too), and came before the N1K2.  Both of their performance statistics are within the same range as the aforementioned American, German, and Japanese fighters, so they are not "uber fighters" like a Ta-152, P-47N, or P-51H. So they would obviously not unbalance the current planeset.

Plus they will suffer with the weakness's of weak armament, small ammo loads, and short range and no drop tanks.

So isn't it fair that the VVS gets a late-war fighter (Yak-3 or Yak-9U) comparable to the other combatants, before we get another new three or four American or German planes?

An added bonus for HTC would be that if they model the Yak-3, they can claim to have modeled a "French" aircraft also, if they dress it in "Normandie-Niemen" colors.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-23-2000).]

[ra]

<<'The mustang was unmatched in altitude performance..'>>

This guy probably never ran across a P-38L, or a P-47D for that matter.

--ra--

[llbm_MOL]

KI84!!!

Where is my KI!!!??????????????

LLBM OUT!!!!!!!!!!

[Vermillion]

What???

No cries of but.. but... but..... from the Luftwobbles?   Jeez where's Fishu and Hristo when you need to stir up some interest in a thread  

Oh well, off for the weekend outta town, and thought I would but this back up to the top, cya guys on Monday.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[juzz]

Fw190D-9?  

[fd ski]

LIES !!! BLOODY LIES !!! DEFEATIST BASTARDS !!!
it's a known historical fact that even 190A1 with its super-duper "make-me-climb-like-a-monkey" injection could outlimb and outrun anyplane !!! Today's F16 can ALMOST match 190's climb !!! Yeah...   and that's with bad sparkplugs !!!
 
<g,d,r>

------------------


Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[Hangtime]

Obviously this guy never saw the AH Mustang or flew the AH Gustav.  

Mind you; I ain't complaining... I'm squeaking.  

Seriously; for the most part; I kinda like this improved Luftewaffe hardware. No such thing as a walkover for a Mustang here in AH. I gotta work fer my supper. And more and more folks like to fly those little ugly assed antique german sleds now. Gives me more to shoot at.   Great experince for dinosaur hunts...

Hang (anxiously scans skies for new P51-F and G)

[ra]

Pounds/horsepower According to AHT (lower is better):

Plane        20k      30k
------       ----     ----
P-51D        7.48     10.6
P-47D        7.21     7.21
P-38L        6.21     6.21

So this guy was lucky he only ran into P-51s at high altitude.  Maybe that's why he lived to tell about it.    

This kinda shows how anecdotal accounts of even highly experienced combat pilots have to be taken with a grain of salt.

--ra--


[This message has been edited by ra (edited 02-24-2000).]

[Vermillion]

The Fw190-D9 Juzz? A 426mph fighter max at 21,650ft. 357mph at SL.

The Fw190-D12 maybe?? According to my new Ta-152 book (excellent btw, highly reccommend it) it was maxed at 432mph at 35,000ft. And could do 340mph at SL.

Both the Yak-3 and Yak-9U would have the advantage over the D9 in all categories at pretty much all altitudes, except range, firepower, ammunition capacity, and durability. Speed, climb, manueverability, acceleration all go to the VVS aircraft, especially at less than 15,000ft.

The D12 would have the additional advantage of maximum speed at very high altitudes (+25k). Might agree with yah there   How many D12-13's were actually made though? Serious question. I can't find a solid number on them. Just "very few", and thats in comparison to the D9's which were in the less than 1,000 number.

But one thing I definitely agree with you on, the Luftwaffe deserves at least the 190D9, just as much as the VVS deserves the Yak-3 or Yak-9U.

Not sure if Fishu would still want the 190-D12 or 190-D13, if he saw the data I am looking at. Its low altitude performance is very poor in comparison to the 190D9.  Especially when you consider the fact that very few fights in AH are above 25k.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Citabr]

f16 has an initial climb of 36,000 feet per minute.

you think a 262 is a pain? lol

[Nashwan]

The most urgent need is fopr a late war RAF fighter. The Spitfire XIV was introduced in early 44, before eithe of the Russian fighters mentioned. It too has performance within the range of the current planeset. At the moment the RAF has the Spit IX, a 1942 aircraft. Next we are getting the Spit V from 41 and the Typhoon, also from 41. While the USAAF and Luftwaffe aircraft move forward the RAF is getting progressively less capable planes.

[juzz]

What are the sea level and altitude speeds for the Fw190D-9 with and without MW 50 though? I heard 440mph with MW 50 somewhere.

But it's true, there's really not much that can beat the latewar Russian planes like La-7 and Yak-3 etc - under 10-15k. Even the 1943 La-5FN is faster than most other AH planes under 10k.

Above 20-25k though - the British, American and German planes would become superior.

As for 1944 RAF fighters...

The Tempest would more than likely become even more dominant than the F4U-1C - It's probably the fastest thing around below 10k, and you can see out the back!

And the Spitfire XIV would match or more often exceed, in almost all areas of performance; every other fighter in AH - especially above 25k. The AFDU judged it superior to the Fw190A-4 and Bf109G - with a 90 Gallon drop tank attached!  

[Vermillion]

Juzz, Not sure on the 190D9 with or without MW50 issue, I pulled the number last night outta "The Complete Book of Fighters" which is usually a very reliable source. But its tough on German fighters with the whole MW50/GM1 issue that clouds the performance numbers so much.

The Yak-3 and Yak-9U would probably have better altitude performance than most VVS fighters because of the VK107 engine which is quite a bit better than older VK105 that was the standard inline engine.  But your right, they're optimized at best for under 20k with the VK105, and under 25k for the VK107.

Nashwan, I still don't see where the Brits are the farthest behind in the aircraft set. The Spit IX is quite competitive in the arena, and is very popular. I would also bet the Typhoon is going to be better than most expect, very tough, extremely well armed, and easily the fastest plane in the arena under 15k. It will be quite effective.

Realistically, if the Spit XIV or the Tempest is modeled, you won't see another aircraft in the arena. Why fly anything else?  Not that this was the case in real life, but in the game setting we have, there won't be a need for any other planes. It will become a one plane game. About the only thing that would compete would be a P-51H which could do about 480mph(?) (which didn't really see combat service), the P-47N/M over 30k, and maybe the Ta-152 over 30k.

Like we don't see enough Nancy Boy Spitfire Pilots in the arena already.   Be happy your getting the Lancaster.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Keep in mind folks that the La-5FN and La-7 will both have a high performance only under _8_k of altitude. After that the motor in both was unable to obtain maximum MAP. Currently the La-5FN has a dramatic drop off at 7,600 ft and I expect the La-7 to have a more gradual drop off from 6800 ft to complete at 9000ft.

Speaking of which...  the La-5FN and La-7 both share a common characteristic with the Nik2 George- only having a low altitude supercharger. Are we going to see a dramatic drop in the Nik2 WEP performance over 12k in the future?

------------------
If your in range, so is the enemy.