Author Topic: How do you approach a Spit?  (Read 7662 times)

Offline JOACH1M

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #195 on: April 14, 2012, 10:47:11 PM »
dudes, the war was over almost 70 years ago.  :noid the spits won.  :banana:  this is just a game.  :joystick:
:banana:
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #196 on: April 14, 2012, 11:22:41 PM »
No, my point is that your trying to save face for something you said earlier. It just takes a non-ignorant person to realize it.  :aok

Did I start the exchange? Yes. Was I still responding to something you said? Also yes.


I have respect for the British flyers, and the spitifre in real life. However, I don't respect the distastefully used cartoon version of the spitfire, nor those more expierienced pilots who are capable of more, yet still use the spitfires.

Its not even a bias, I look down on P-51's and 190's that play the BnZ and run game. I look down on the ones that HO or cherry pick. I talk down to the pilots of such aircraft to.


I don't feel the need to save face; I don't know Karnak from a hill of beans, I can't recall ever fighting or even seeing him in game, and lately hes been showing a great deal of ignorance and petulance on the GV issue. I really don't give a damn about his opinion right now.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Oldman731

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #197 on: April 14, 2012, 11:34:19 PM »
dudes, the war was over almost 70 years ago.  :noid the spits won.  :banana:  this is just a game. 


Shane has become the voice of reason.

Someone call the medics.  Quick.  We don't want to lose him.

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #198 on: April 15, 2012, 02:12:28 AM »
I have respect for the British flyers, and the spitifre in real life.

The spitfire hardly defined England's 'unbroken spirit'. Even saying that it exemplifies that spirit is greatly stretching a point.

I mean the UK had at one point, what, like 50 operational spitfires during the Battle of Britain, while the Hurricanes bore the brunt of the work? No matter how laughable giving so fearsome a name to so sedate a fighter is, it sounds as though you ought to be praising the Hurricane over the Spitfire.



Or did you mean to say it defined the spirit of letting the USA bear the brunt of the work later on in the war?

Clearly great respect.  Not sure how we all missed that part.   :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:14:33 AM by BaldEagl »
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #199 on: April 15, 2012, 01:34:06 PM »
As I said, I was replying to an earlier comment. I have no problem making fun of just about anything in jest. Religion, polotics, humanity in general, doesn't really matter. But I wouldn't insult the british or their flyers in earnest under any circumstances, just as I wouldn't insult the Germans, Americans, Japanese, Russians, or anyone.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline JOACH1M

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #200 on: April 15, 2012, 01:56:15 PM »
As I said, I was replying to an earlier comment. I have no problem making fun of just about anything in jest. Religion, polotics, humanity in general, doesn't really matter. But I wouldn't insult the british or their flyers in earnest under any circumstances, just as I wouldn't insult the Germans, Americans, Japanese, Russians, or anyone.
But you clearly did with this post.


Quote from: Tank-Ace on April 07, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
The spitfire hardly defined England's 'unbroken spirit'. Even saying that it exemplifies that spirit is greatly stretching a point.

I mean the UK had at one point, what, like 50 operational spitfires during the Battle of Britain, while the Hurricanes bore the brunt of the work? No matter how laughable giving so fearsome a name to so sedate a fighter is, it sounds as though you ought to be praising the Hurricane over the Spitfire.



Or did you mean to say it defined the spirit of letting the USA bear the brunt of the work later on in the war?
FEW ~ BK's ~ AoM
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ToC 2013 & 2017 Champ
R.I.P My Brothers <3

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #201 on: April 15, 2012, 02:11:10 PM »
So you've gained omniscience have you? Become some all-knowing knowing being that can see into my heart and mind?

I post that with intent to one-up the previous comment, and I achieved that. I didn't post that with intent to belittle the British. I admit I was walking close to the line, and may have even trodden on it, but then again, how much of a damn I'm not giving...... its just a stounding.


If I really wanted to insult the british, I would go about it by poking fun at their follies in other areas, such as the whole appeasment thing immedeatly prior to WWII, or letting Motgomory get in the way of battlefield success for political reasons, not by poking fun at their military.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #202 on: April 15, 2012, 02:36:51 PM »
Spitfires are approached like every other fighter - What is your ALT compared to him? what is your speed compared to him? What does your aircraft excel in?

If you hold the advantage - you attack like normal, use your aircrafts advantages to weaken the spits speed or alt - if you are flying defensive then there really isn't much you can do over all.

The spit performs quite well in all areas, climb rate, dive, turn radius, speed - if your aircraft doesn't improve in one of those areas then you simply have to rely on luck, and hope the pilot makes a mistake.

Prime example:

Flew a C.205 which has a 109's engine, which means it climbs extremely well and has a pretty good gun package, its turn radius is terrible however. I had a spit dive on me and I reversed to meet him head on, he instantly tried to break into a turn fight
and bled his energy off quick. I went over the top using my climb rate and kept my speed up while he bled everything off right away on the first turn.

He should of easily out turned me or kept boom and zooming, but I used my climb rate and energy to defeat him. Nothing more then luck and a novice pilot, any skilled pilot would of zoom climbed back up and set the engagement up again.

I had no chance to disengage as my window closed before I could make the move.
JG 52

Offline Karnak

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #203 on: April 15, 2012, 05:18:53 PM »
Butcher,

The Spitfires VIII, IX, XIV and XVI will all easily out climb the C.205.  Unless it was a Mk I, Mk V or Seafire you out flew your opponent, not out climbed him due to your aircraft.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #204 on: April 15, 2012, 05:42:53 PM »
Butcher,

The Spitfires VIII, IX, XIV and XVI will all easily out climb the C.205.  Unless it was a Mk I, Mk V or Seafire you out flew your opponent, not out climbed him due to your aircraft.

He mishandled his energy is the point I made, and the Spit 9 does not outclimb the 205 with wep or not until beyond 7k.
JG 52

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #205 on: April 15, 2012, 07:03:03 PM »
If it was a spit VIII or XVI out of wep, he could have out climbed it with WEP. Barely, but he could have out-climbed it.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Letalis

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Re: How do you approach a Spit?
« Reply #206 on: April 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM »
Questions:  How to approach a spit, Jug/Hog driver perspective.
Answer: From above.


1v1 spit above or co-alt:  Extend if possible and try to return higher.  The higher the alt at the start of the fight, the better.  The jug closes some of the climb gap with altitude and gets a good 400-600fpm boost when 50% fuel and with the light gun package (D-25,D40) so the lighter the better as well.  It is possible to stall fight a spit to some degree above 15k though still a tricky proposition.  The jug can kick out flaps at 400+, it will almost hold its own in a descending defensive spiral with flaps out. In a worst case scenario against a good spit that gets the upper hand, the jug dive away and get some separation in the process.  Assuming the spit follows, high speed maneuver (>450) heavily favors the jug. In a dive, jug roll is superior, G-onset is superior (the spit is much more responsive in pitch)  and a descending scissors starting with a hard turn corkscrewing back into a climb will often black out the spit driver (his turn is harder since may simply pull lead for a gun solution) or even better snap his wings.  If the spit stays with you he will at least now be substantially out of phase given out the advantage in a high speed ascending (maybe 45-60 deg) scissors.  Drop flaps and use throttle as necessary and the out of phase spit stands a good chance of sitting in front of you albeit in a potential rope situation.  If this fails and you still have >10k alt, kick the rudder in and head toward the ground again ASAP, you will need the speed to regain the roll advantage and put him out of phase as you again gain separation. 


1v1 or many vs many spit below:  I am much less concerned about the spit in a many v many situation even if the spit happens to be above.  As the size of the engagement increases, advantage swings more toward aircraft types with snapshot capability and toughness, IE US iron.  There is nothing to fear from a spit 3-5k below you in the short term.  When I come across a furball the following questions go through my mind:  1. Who can kill me soonest?  2. Who is the easiest prey now?  If I don't have much of an alt buffer on the cons I'm hitting then special attention does to the dora or la-7 that could eventually run me down.  (Most LW U.S, birds do 343 or above on the deck, on par with the spit16)  The answer to question 2 is usually "spit."  The wings are horribly weak and spit drivers love to use a break turn to get out of trouble. The tail digs in and they are perpendicular to you an an instant giving an easy shot to virtually 100% of their wing area.  What they fail to recognize is that by pulling too sharply they are actually decreasing the rate at which they move away from your gun solution (happens with hurris and zekes too) if you can expect it, it works like a champ.  When picking on a group of spits do your best to spread out your passes between them.  If you focus on one you will get fixated and not interrupt the building of E going on below you.  A spit turning is not a spit extending- you've taken the energy you'd spend anyway and forced a second spit into dumping E to evade you.

In closing: The spit was made to shoot down other planes and it does it very well.  It evolved as an interceptor and the LW U.S. birds show attention more to range, safety and ground pounding vice maneuver.  The Hellcat would probably not have been as successful against the zeke had the engagements taken place 1v1 in a small cage but fact was the Hellcat flew en masse and did great against the zeke.  If you're going to fly U.S. you're better off with a wingman than in a 1v1.

Weaknesses: Poor roll at high speeds, small clip, poor deflection shooting capability compared to most U.S. planes, lacks toughness, rapid G-onset at times, lack of combat flaps, lack of legit ground attack capability.

Strengths:  Acceleration, climb, turn rate/radius.

For most MA scenarios I prefer my F6F, P47, P38 or Hog to the spit.  I never flew it enough to "master" it but just enough to know what it could do.  My k/d remained stable compared to flying US rides- the plane is uber when it comes to dogfight maneuvering but not uber overall due to its toughness.  Unless I have a spit on my short 6, I'll take a jug any day.
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