Gun control laws do they work ?

[RngFndr]

Yep.  If an issue arose were it was deemed necessary by the citizens of this country, then yes.  My point is, the constitution is not a commandment from god.  It was made by regular men, in the context of their way of life at the time.  There have been adjustments made to it throughout US history.

Then use the proper amendment process, don't avoid it trying to rule by decree...
That is treason, and surely the road to war!

But they don't, because they know the people are not going to sit still for it..
So here we are..

[zack1234]

Hey lets go there.  I think all parolee's should be chipped.

But what about thier civil rights if you have been in jail numerous times its societies fault and nothing to do with being rsponsible for you own actions

Years ago if you had been in jail you kept it to yourself, today its a form of honour, I worked for a archive in Salford Manchester, one night shift we got talking to some new guy who informed us he had just come out of Strangeways prison for breaking into some one house and stealing. Next day he was fired, he was not bothered he thought its was a occupational hazard getting caught and it was alright to discuss it.

The manager who employed him knew the guy and I told him if he employed crimminals again I would get him sacked.  

Crimminals in my opinion keep their mouths shut and thier heads down for twenty years until we have decided they are fit to treated as respectable people.

[VonMessa]

But what about thier civil rights if you have been in jail numerous times its societies fault and nothing to do with being rsponsible for you own actions

Years ago if you had been in jail you kept it to yourself, today its a form of honour, I worked for a archive in Salford Manchester, one night shift we got talking to some new guy who informed us he had just come out of Strangeways prison for breaking into some one house and stealing. Next day he was fired, he was not bothered he thought its was a occupational hazard getting caught and it was alright to discuss it.

The manager who employed him knew the guy and I told him if he employed crimminals again I would get him sacked.  

Crimminals in my opinion keep their mouths shut and thier heads down for twenty years until we have decided they are fit to treated as respectable people.

A very broad statement my pie-hording friend. 

How are they supposed to make a lawful living if someone is not willing to give them a second chance?

It really defeats the purpose of rehabilitation or punishment if all you give someone that has served their sentence no options to make an honest
living.

Agreed.  People make mistakes,  A lot have paid their debt to society and continue on realizing their mistakes.  Others are in and out of custody like the prison has a revolving door.  It is not a badge of honor.

[zack1234]

Thats my point if you are crimminal you keep your mouth and your head down, if you tell everyone as if its normal behaviour is not exceptable (do gooders have given excuses for thier behaviour)

Until decent people make it clear that unsociable behaviour is unexceptable these people will continue to behave in such a manner

I know people with colorful pasts, the differences is they don't view it as a badge of honor or use excuses why they did it

The majority if crime is not for a loaf of bread or shoes for your kids its crime for personal gain

[Tracerfi]

BURN ZACK'S Pies

[Rino]

     I think Zack might if he forgets he has them in his oven 

[hlbly]

My own opinion is that guns and gun laws are something of red herring.  The reality is that the use of violence whether it be guns or any other weapon is a reflection of the society you live in. The OP has bought two guns for protection and that is the real problem. The issue isn't guns but that he feel he needs a gun to protect himself and his family. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. All to often that gets ignored in arguments over gun laws.

In most of America, I'm sure and certainly in most European countries most people don't feel the need to own a gun for protection, Sport yes, fun yes. Protection? A bonus maybe.

Gun massacres attract the publicity but in the overall scheme of things they're not representative. They seem more common in the US no doubt because of the relative ease of availability of firearms. There is a pattern among the perpetrators, misfits who reach a breaking point. Not sure how you you can legislate for that. The British introduced draconian gun laws after Dunblane in a knee jerk reaction to that.  It did nothing to reduce gun crime in Britain. Criminals don't apply for a licence.

What really needs to happen is that people who live in 'riskier' areas should be pushing their local authorities and politicians to do something about and for those people to actually address the problem.

Probably wishful thinking.

I much more than feel I need to protect myself . Did you read the article in the local papers ? You are certainly making a lot of assumptions about me and where I live . I am financially secure and will be for the rest of my life . Not rich but secure . The town I live in never had a gang problem until 3 years ago . It is not a poor community or a ghetto . The meth heads did not do home invasions . Not even on each other . Read a little bit about the EK and their tactics . They got the message across early on when an elderly woman who witnessed an EK assault and was going to testify disappeared .  In 2003, for example, a gang member beat and stomped to death a developmentally disabled black woman and then set her body on fire while believing she was still alive.  The shooting that took place last Saturday happened 3 blocks from my home . Two people are shot one calls police . 15 minutes later another GSW victim shows up at the local hospital . The police are treating this like two separate shootings . In a town of 15,000 . The last shooting had been three years ago I think . Believe me the NEED to protect myself ,my 80 yo father and 2 yo daughter is real . The last thing I ever wanted to do was use a firearm ever again . 22 years in the Army as an Infantryman and Cav Scout sated any desire to have weapons as a daily part of my life . The only thing I find more unappealing is the thought of methed out gang members who have so far operated with impunity in my community . In my home being the only ones armed .

[gpwurzel]

From an outsiders perspective (I'm a brit living in the US)
We're used to not having personal weapons - after the Hungerford incident and the Dunblane incident, there was such an outcry. Handguns were banned, big restrictions were put in place on all other types of weapons. For instance, if you own an air rifle that is above 12ft pounds, you need a Firearms Certificate.
As a result of the bans, and public media reporting, the only people in the UK who have weapons are the authorities, and the criminals. When I was living in Portsmouth, I could walk out of my house, go into a local bar, and walk out 30 mins later with a firearm - completely illegal, but easy enough to do.

Now I live in the US, in a small town (like Hlbly) I'm in the process of obtaining (legally) - 1 x shotgun (home defence) and eventually a pistol (thinking .40 calibre at the moment). This is not because I dont trust the police to respond, but because there are generally only 2 or 3 onshift at any one time. My wife and family are not going to be victims, yet neither are any of us going to be antagonists.

Should there be control over what people own, imo yes. But to completely ban (disarm) 1 sector of a population is fascile - armed criminals are not going to respect the fact that you/we have been disarmed by law.

Sorry, rambled a bit there.

Wurz

[cpxxx]

Sorry I think you misunderstood my comments. I do see how you you need a gun to protect yourself. Clearly you do, given the circumstances you mention. More to the point it's a recent development in your town as you said;

The town I live in never had a gang problem until 3 years ago . It is not a poor community or a ghetto .

All the more reason the local authorities and Police should be dealing with the problem. They have failed when people like you live in fear and have to arm themselves for protection. Particularly in a small town like that.

I do understand where you're coming from.

[VonMessa]

Sorry I think you misunderstood my comments. I do see how you you need a gun to protect yourself. Clearly you do, given the circumstances you mention. More to the point it's a recent development in your town as you said;  

All the more reason the local authorities and Police should be dealing with the problem. They have failed when people like you live in fear and have to arm themselves for protection. Particularly in a small town like that.

I do understand where you're coming from.

This is the only part that you haven't understood, yet.

We don't 

[zack1234]

Wurzel is right

[Slate]

  If anyone hear belongs to the NRA or reads thier rifleman magazine you are aware of the "Armed Citizen" column.

  Something the media will rarely report is how many robberies and home invasions were stopped by Citizens that defended themselves with firearms. With hundreds of millions of people in the us alone the Police are just outnumbered.
  
   If we could get past the Hype and train ALL Citizens how to use and respect the Deadliest of Tools we would be better off.
  I teach my grandson about Gun Safety so hopefully he will never injure himself or anyone else by accident.
    If need be you should have the skills to identify and hit your target. 
      

[shotgunneeley]

I'd rather have the ability to defend myself against ten gunmen than to be killed like a sheep by one.

[mike8318]

Average police response time in the US is about 6 minutes. Average time for a trained armed citizen to clear leather and get the first shot is about 5 seconds. Criminals don't obey laws,so they don't apply to them. With 20,000 gun laws on the books now,if they actually worked,the US should be crime free.

[Ardy123]

Its a problem if you feel the need to protect yourself with guns. Its called a break down of society, and guns arn't going to fix that.  I'd like to imagine that I'm part of an orderly society and not a wild west shootout.

I know many have a preconceived notion of who I am, and that being said, I have shot many guns and have hunted animals, etc.. But never am I going to delude myself with the belief that I need military equipment to protect myself. Think about it, if you need military equipment, you either live in anarchy, or your fantasizing about living in an anarchic environment and guns are the least of your problems.

Crime is a serious issue, and to Hilblys experience, having lived very close to where Hilbly lives, its true that part of Oregon does suffer from a meth problem, but the problem is the meth, little opportunity, etc... and guns are not going to fix that. Furthermore, with over 100 million guns in circulation, I don't advocate for the elimination of the second amendment, nor do I think its reasonable, but taking the other extreme is equally unreasonable. With great power comes great responsibility, and frankly, I don't trust people with that responsibility. Enabling people to have tools to kill many people at once quickly is too risky for our society for us to take the attitude, "trust, until there is a breach of trust". How many people need to die, so some of us can have 'symbols' of freedom? What if it was your kid who got killed because some nutjob brought a automatic rifle to school?

EDIT: Scuzzy must be on vacation....