I love the 410!!!!

[Lusche]

I took one up to ~28,000ft with the 50mm cannon.

Don't do this.  It doesn't like it up there.

Also, don't use this if you want to hunt anything other than unperked, heavy or older medium bombers.

When I go buff hunting in the 410, I do position myself at 25-28k, the latter one being about the practical limit, though my highest kills in a 410 had been above that even (long chase vs B-24). This enables you not only to shred almost every standard bomber, but also to get the occasional B-29 that hasn't climbed (yet) to altitudes above 30k. This way I killed 6 of them in the 410  so far. Of course once you are on their six, there's no hope to ever catch up with them unless the 29 pilot does a very bad job.

I also never use the 50mm gun myself. The Mk 103 loadout is a much better weapon package, still providing long range sniping capability (and a much easier one to use) with less performance loss and higher versatility.

[Torquila]

But lusche, the 103 has standard range (around 1k) I thought.

That would put you within the danger zone for a really good buff pilot.

Having the 50mm ensures you never have to take that risk.

I would question the versatility of it as well, I only ever use 103's when I want to kill fighters as it only seems to be good for that.

Bomber/raider killing at low alt, the extra 4*20mm I find is much better because of the sheer amount of lead thrown at them.

[Lusche]

But lusche, the 103 has standard range (around 1k) I thought.

That would put you within the danger zone for a really good buff pilot.

Having the 50mm ensures you never have to take that risk.

I would question the versatility of it as well, I only ever use 103's when I want to kill fighters as it only seems to be good for that.

Bomber/raider killing at low alt, the extra 4*20mm I find is much better because of the sheer amount of lead thrown at them.

The moment the icon changes to 1.0, you are at 1250 yards and can fire away. At that range it's way easier for you to hit the bomber due to the very flat trajectory of the 103. The bomber gunner has the problem that due to the 500yds convergence setting, only a tiny fraction of his guns will be on target (mostly just the 2 MG of the station hes sitting in) and his bullets will have lost a lot of their destructive power (B-29 20mm gun aside). The Mk 103 shells are tightly grouped and have lost almost nothing of their destructive power.
You are simply pwning every heavy bomber but the 29 in firepower.
For a "really good" bomber pilot it's easier to avoid 1.5-2k 50mm rounds coming in in single shots by clever maneuvering, than to avoid that hail of 30mm bullets. If he's really clever, he will slam on the brakes in to get the 410 closer to him as quick as possible, but that is very much against the instinct of most buff pilots, as they usually try (for good reason) to keep heavily armed fighter at bay.

Against buffs, the extra 4x20mm pale in comparison to the Mk 103. Much less effective range, shorter trajectory, less destructive power. They would only be a reasonable choice against fast moving and maneuvering targets like fighters.

[Torquila]

meh, will give it a try

[W7LPNRICK]

The first time I encountered B-17s in a 410 I killed all three with the 50mm, must have been a fluke, I emptied the gun from 1.5K-1K last week, didn't scratch them & don't know what I did wrong...getting old I guess....

[Torquila]

Tried the 103's specifically for bombers, luche, I see what you mean and I would reckon to say thats its arguably the *better* of the two for accuracy and assured effectiveness but it still doesn't provide that "untouchable" distance you get with the BK5. Which is very important to me when im flying my 410.

W7LPNRICK, don't overthink it, just feel it out; you will find your shots landing better that way. Overthinking and overfocusing is only effective for very flat trajectory weapons (more predictable).

[Karnak]

Out of curiosity, is there any fighter that the Me410 would actually have the advantage over in a co-alt, co-E meeting?  Hurricane Mk I?  Spitfire Mk I?  I-16? A6M2? B-239?

I have a feeling the A6M2 and Spitfire Mk I would tear it apart.  Well, nibble it apart anyways.

[Torquila]

From my experience, its only the really late monsters that are the fatal threat, other moderate threats include focused firing platforms (p38/mossie) and the occasional cannon bird.

Early war stuff can be outran by the 110G, let alone the 410 + 2*13mm deterrent.

[Karnak]

From my experience, its only the really late monsters that are the fatal threat, other moderate threats include focused firing platforms (p38/mossie) and the occasional cannon bird.

Early war stuff can be outran by the 110G, let alone the 410 + 2*13mm deterrent.

Running away = defeated.

Not sure how the P-38 and Mossie are only moderate threats.  They out perform the Me410 across the board leaving it with very little to work with.

What fighters, if any, starting co-alt and co-E, does the Me410 have the advantage over when it comes to shooting the other down.

Also, it is not just late war monsters that will out run the Me410.  The Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Spitfire Mk IX, Fw190A-5 and the F4U-1 are all much faster and none are late war.

[Karnak]

Also, if planes that out perform the Me410 across the board, such as the P-38 and Mossie, are only "moderate" threats I think your evaluation of the Me410 is overly optimistic.

For the record, I consider the Mosquito to be a moderate threat to an La-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI.

[GScholz]

The 410 can use its speed against those fighters that are slower to build an E advantage, then B&Z. It would be a slow and boring process though.

[Karnak]

The 410 can use its speed against those fighters that are slower to build an E advantage, then B&Z. It would be a slow and boring process though.

It can't because it can't climb above them.  If it tries to BnZ an A6M2, how? If I am the A6M2 and the Me410 flies away from me I will climb so that if he comes back I'll be able to dive to speed to get him.  If he tries to climb at his maximum climb rate I'll just run him down and kill him.  If he tries to climb while keeping his airspeed above what I can do I will, again, just climb above him.

[Torquila]

Karnak, did you mean in the DA or the MA?

" The Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Spitfire Mk IX, Fw190A-5 and the F4U-1 ", only real problem plane here is the F4u cause of the .50s, when extending; they can sometimes knock out your tail gun from an erratic shot at 1k. The rest usually turn away after feeling the 13mm at 1k or 800 (and the f4u seems to absorb the most damage as well).

PS: Any plane that can knock you out without having to completely out fly you is a moderate threat.

Nose focused weapons especially seem to be an issue when it comes to a tail gun shoot out.

[GScholz]

It can't because it can't climb above them.  If it tries to BnZ an A6M2, how? If I am the A6M2 and the Me410 flies away from me I will climb so that if he comes back I'll be able to dive to speed to get him.  If he tries to climb at his maximum climb rate I'll just run him down and kill him.  If he tries to climb while keeping his airspeed above what I can do I will, again, just climb above him.

A Zeke that expend all his E like that will get a face full of taters as the 410 turns around and makes high speed slashing attacks.

[Karnak]

A Zeke that expend all his E like that will get a face full of taters as the 410 turns around and makes high speed slashing attacks.

Hard to do high speed slashing attacks on an aircraft thousands of feet above you.