Free to Play First Person Shooter.......

[tuton25]

How did the hanger queens come into this???
I say that F2P should not have any vehicals and aircraft short of transports
Maybe the WWI arena could be free to play........

[muzik]

How did the hanger queens come into this???
I say that F2P should not have any vehicals and aircraft short of transports
Maybe the WWI arena could be free to play........

They came in because your idea of a low fidelity FPS that would be developed for free and make no profit in itself is asking a lot. Yea it could improve the game all around, but would likely be too big a drain on resources for the benefit in the current climate.

Unless they're no more than a cash cow for dale to milk dry, I wouldn't want them. The annoyance of the 19 tards, twits, and a-holes aren't worth the 1 who both subscribes and plays with a moticum of respectability.


 At best, all this will do is make more hordes (never good under any circumstance) and increase stupidity several fold.

You do get the point then. Hordes of guilt free kills, I'm drooling already.

[snarking sounding preface omitted]

Bless you for that btw      <S>

[Tank-Ace]

You do get the point then. Hordes of guilt free kills, I'm drooling already.

So the point is to intentionally harm the game?


Many hordes could barely be considered fights as things are. Do you really want to wade through three times as much stupid, ineptitude, and ignorance to get to the few who will actually fight?

The percentage of new players attracted by ftp who don't hurt the game by tying up the server more than their role as cannon fodder helps will likely around .5%.

[muzik]

So the point is to intentionally harm the game?


Many hordes could barely be considered fights as things are. Do you really want to wade through three times as much stupid, ineptitude, and ignorance to get to the few who will actually fight?

The percentage of new players attracted by ftp who don't hurt the game by tying up the server more than their role as cannon fodder helps will likely around .5%.

Hordes don't hurt the game. Hordes provide what everyone who plays this game wants, including you.

I don't know you or what you want out of this game, but whatever it is, it is provided to you BECAUSE OF THE HORDES. If this game had no hordes it would be what? A single player game where you fly around shooting at drones? Or something like the free eight player AH used to have?
Whatever it would be, HTc wouldn't be in business if it were anything else.

The ability for people to "horde" is what brings many people to this game whether they know it or not. It's what rational and unbiased people call the closest thing to a ww2 dogfight you can find. And because we found this experience that we could only read and dream about 20 years ago, we engage in it and we have fun at it. If you stopped the hordes completely, that's when you will see people leave the game. It will stop being a challenge and stop being fun.

I posted an idea years ago that would change the way the hordes operated, but I would never want to end all potential for hording. Overwhelming odds were a fact in ww2 and should be a part of any good ww2 flight sim.

[The Fugitive]

Hordes don't hurt the game. Hordes provide what everyone who plays this game wants, including you.

I don't know you or what you want out of this game, but whatever it is, it is provided to you BECAUSE OF THE HORDES. If this game had no hordes it would be what? A single player game where you fly around shooting at drones? Or something like the free eight player AH used to have?
Whatever it would be, HTc wouldn't be in business if it were anything else.

The ability for people to "horde" is what brings many people to this game whether they know it or not. It's what rational and unbiased people call the closest thing to a ww2 dogfight you can find. And because we found this experience that we could only read and dream about 20 years ago, we engage in it and we have fun at it. If you stopped the hordes completely, that's when you will see people leave the game. It will stop being a challenge and stop being fun.

I posted an idea years ago that would change the way the hordes operated, but I would never want to end all potential for hording. Overwhelming odds were a fact in ww2 and should be a part of any good ww2 flight sim.

I believe it is hordes that will kill this game. You can't fight a horde, you can only fly through a number of time picking kills until you have to run with your tail between your legs, or die only to re-up to repeat.

Look at a football game. If one team had all the best players and every game they played they won 55-0 How long would people continue to watch football? Not long.

Even the people in the horde don't realize they are in a horde. Yesterday I was congratulating a Bish horde for capturing another base. I asked them why they needed to horde a port! The answer in PM's was we didn't horde, we only had 10 people. I can post the screen shot that clearly shows 23 at the time of capture. How many lemmings died before the goon dropped? The leader of the mission hadn't a clue as to how many people he had in his mission? And they had to run it NOE on top of that! How sad is that?

No, if you run 10-15 guys in a co-ordinated strike it is not a horde, 25 or more NOE dweebs flattening everything like locust is. In war over whelming numbers is a plus as it is life or death. In a game all side should have a reasonable chance to win. Hordes take that chance away.

[muzik]

I believe it is hordes that will kill this game. You can't fight a horde, you can only fly through a number of time picking kills until you have to run with your tail between your legs, or die only to re-up to repeat.

Look at a football game. If one team had all the best players and every game they played they won 55-0 How long would people continue to watch football? Not long.

Even the people in the horde don't realize they are in a horde. Yesterday I was congratulating a Bish horde for capturing another base. I asked them why they needed to horde a port! The answer in PM's was we didn't horde, we only had 10 people. I can post the screen shot that clearly shows 23 at the time of capture. How many lemmings died before the goon dropped? The leader of the mission hadn't a clue as to how many people he had in his mission? And they had to run it NOE on top of that! How sad is that?

No, if you run 10-15 guys in a co-ordinated strike it is not a horde, 25 or more NOE dweebs flattening everything like locust is. In war over whelming numbers is a plus as it is life or death. In a game all side should have a reasonable chance to win. Hordes take that chance away.

It's not the horde's fault you can't get an even number of people from your country to stand up against them. It's also not their fault that, even if you could, that you can't work well enough as a team together to defeat them.

It's been a couple years since I played, but I doubt anything has changed. So what base was your countries horde at? I seem to remember, and being one who side-switched  a lot to look for the underdog country to find the most action, that it didnt matter what the country player count was, there was always a mass of each country that was hording a base. Often times your horde chose not to oppose their horde for whatever reason.

And the fact is, that a lot of the times (I would say most of) it was just a matter of mistaken interpretation of the situation. What you call a horde was a lot of times the result of a few or a lot of very talented players coming into the fight and cleaning house. What's left is what you call a "horde" and a lot of dead and frustrated players who CHOSE to go somewhere else rather than keep getting beat up on.

[Tank-Ace]

Hordes don't hurt the game. Hordes provide what everyone who plays this game wants, including you.

I don't know you or what you want out of this game, but whatever it is, it is provided to you BECAUSE OF THE HORDES. If this game had no hordes it would be what? A single player game where you fly around shooting at drones? Or something like the free eight player AH used to have?
Whatever it would be, HTc wouldn't be in business if it were anything else.

The ability for people to "horde" is what brings many people to this game whether they know it or not. It's what rational and unbiased people call the closest thing to a ww2 dogfight you can find. And because we found this experience that we could only read and dream about 20 years ago, we engage in it and we have fun at it. If you stopped the hordes completely, that's when you will see people leave the game. It will stop being a challenge and stop being fun.

I posted an idea years ago that would change the way the hordes operated, but I would never want to end all potential for hording. Overwhelming odds were a fact in ww2 and should be a part of any good ww2 flight sim.

I want spontaneous fights with good pilots where we can let things play out to the end, with whoever flew better getting to go do it some more.

I've never found that in an actual horde. Best place to find it is on the fringes of the combat. Go to a base thats flashed by a lone con, and you'll have better odds of finding that type of fight than you would in a horde. Why? Because the type of pilot who also wants to fight things out to the end, without calling for 20 guys to come finish things for him, generally isn't drawn to the horde, since the horde interupts.

Sure, they may have started as a fight between good pilots, but it never stays that way. Idiots and the skilless flock to them. That stage can still be fun, but is short lived. After that, the horde starts interupting as more mid-level pilots join in to slay noobs, and see how long they can last against the vets. Vets get tired of having to break off, and then re-engage, or just have to log off, and soon all thats left is a mass of retardation.


Finally, more idiots in the arena will most certianly shorten the fun phase of a horde.


Since about '09, only times I flew with the horde was when one of my favorite maps was in danger of being rolled, and when only a few squadies or friends were on and wanting to capture bases. If there were more than about 5, and we wanted to capture bases, we went out and did it ourselves.

Asside from that, mostly I just winged up with Devil5O5 in 109F's.

[muzik]

I want spontaneous fights with good pilots where we can let things play out to the end, with whoever flew better getting to go do it some more.

So what you're saying is, you want to fly in an arena with lots of fights going on but you don't want to be a part of the "furball." And if you pick ONE enemy out of the dozens of planes flying around you want all the rest of them to automatically stay out of your "spontaneous" fight?

Should we make a rule, everybody should fly around in one big furball but all fights are 1v1, no interruptions? That's so spontaneous. AH has something similar to that, it's called KOTH. Or you can go to the DA and often times find a bunch of guys flying around at a private field with those EXACT rules. Everyone flys around until two people find an opponent that isn't fighting.

I've never found that in an actual horde. Best place to find it is on the fringes of the combat. Go to a base thats flashed by a lone con, and you'll have better odds of finding that type of fight than you would in a horde. Why? Because the type of pilot who also wants to fight things out to the end, without calling for 20 guys to come finish things for him, generally isn't drawn to the horde, since the horde interupts.

So you really expected to fly into a furball and find a 1v1 fight.

If the best place to find those kind of fights is on the fringe of combat, why don't you just do that? It sounds like you know how to find what you're looking for. I'll tell you why, because you are too impatient. You want it all to go your way when and how you want. When you win it's GREAT, when you lose it's the hordes fault. You want something that is not possible because you don't clearly understand how your idea of fun would ruin YOUR GAME if you got it. Ask just about any of the muppets how many people join those private field duels on average. Not many, because it's fun, but NOT AS FUN as the MA.


The bottom line is, nobody likes to get shot down and when they do some of them become emotional and irrational. Then they come to the boards to vent about how ridiculous the hordes are. There are dozens of them chiming in here and making the same complaints but I don't see any of you getting together every day when you log in and having private 1v1's in the DA. Why is that? There are so many of you out there.

I seem to recall that there are even player moderated arenas now, why isn't there a bunch of guys doing this according to these 1v1 rules? I'll tell you why, because what you think you want doesn't work. It's not that fun. It's been done and I am sure is still being done on a regular basis in the DA, but it gets boring and every one of them go back to the MA where the real fun is.

Finally, more idiots in the arena will most certianly shorten the fun phase of a horde.

You have no business calling any free players idiotic considering your comments. There would likely be the same percentage of retardedness in free players as there are in paying players.

[The Fugitive]

It's not the horde's fault you can't get an even number of people from your country to stand up against them. It's also not their fault that, even if you could, that you can't work well enough as a team together to defeat them.

It's been a couple years since I played, but I doubt anything has changed. So what base was your countries horde at? I seem to remember, and being one who side-switched  a lot to look for the underdog country to find the most action, that it didnt matter what the country player count was, there was always a mass of each country that was hording a base. Often times your horde chose not to oppose their horde for whatever reason.

And the fact is, that a lot of the times (I would say most of) it was just a matter of mistaken interpretation of the situation. What you call a horde was a lot of times the result of a few or a lot of very talented players coming into the fight and cleaning house. What's left is what you call a "horde" and a lot of dead and frustrated players who CHOSE to go somewhere else rather than keep getting beat up on.

The bolded line is my favorite line in all this. What it says to me is the person wrote it doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about. Case in point, When I played hockey we didn't have all these "prim a donnas" to worry about and coddle on our teams. We just went into the corner with everything we had and the last guy standing put the puck in the net. Sure it's the same game with basically the same rules, but it is played very differently.

In the port mission I mentioned about I saw a the port flashing, I jumped to that base to see what was up and was it worth a trip over. I saw a couple of F6's trying to take out the VH, and dar. I figured that maybe there was a CV near by and a few enterprising guys were going to try a sneak in and grab the port. I upped from the nearest field and climbed to 5K as I buzzed on over. Im the few minutes it took me to get half way, the dar bar filled, the VH was down a guys in the tower were calling out the goon was close. I dove in killed the goon (but he had already dropped) and I blasted out with a half dozen hogs chasing which soon caught and dispatched my poor little G2. 3 minutes later they were gone, to up someplace else in the next NOE where nobody could catch them.

Yes I got a kill, but there was no fight. They captured a base, but there was no challenge. They dropped bombs and destroyed object... as well as creating 30-40 craters as there was wayyyyyy more ord brought than was needed for 3 ports.

Even grabbing 10 guys for defense might have turned the tables but I doubt you or any body could call and get 10 guys to drop what they are doing to defend. Why? because it just isn't fun. I don't care how hard core you are, upping from a capped field more than a few times is stupid, as all your doing is padding someone score, and your not defending anything. Upping from a close field and running in quick doesn't work either as these Hordes are very good. They come in and roll a field in minutes!

So what does that leave us with in the game?

1. Join the horde, maybe you'll be one of the first in and your bombs will be useful.
2. GV... or should we say spawn camp, or get camped.
3. avoid the horde and make your own fun. These players are the back bone of this game, unfortunately there are fewer and fewer.

Have you looked at the scores lately? A couple years ago if you didn't capture a base in a goon your rank was tied with all those other players who didn't and that number was in the 4000 area. Now a days its under 2000. That either means a lot more people are capturing bases in goons, or the base number of players is dropping. We use to have over 600 players prime time, so many they split the arenas. Today its around 300-400, and no the players aren't in the EW or Mw arenas.

Whats this tells us, subscriptions are dropping. Why? Maybe it's because of the economy, but I'm thinking people are bored and so move on to another game. If you don't get into this game, and I really mean get into it, learn all the in's and out's of fighting and the different planes and vehicles. If all you do is to up a heavy fighter, firewall the throttle, click on the auto level at 400 feet while pointed at the base your sneaking up on with 30-40 of your "friends", pop up drop bombs and pray the troops make it in before more than a few guys show up to defend, then how long until you get bored with doing that? If that is the "be all and end all" of your experience with this game I'm surprised people last more than a couple months.

I'm curious "Muzik" why did you leave? Money, or were you just bored? Even picking "lemmings" in the horde is boring. I am so thankful for those players who use small groups to pick fights while trying to take bases. These are the guys I like to hang around with. Win or lose, it's always fun.

[Tank-Ace]

So what you're saying is, you want to fly in an arena with lots of fights going on but you don't want to be a part of the "furball." And if you pick ONE enemy out of the dozens of planes flying around you want all the rest of them to automatically stay out of your "spontaneous" fight?

Should we make a rule, everybody should fly around in one big furball but all fights are 1v1, no interruptions? That's so spontaneous. AH has something similar to that, it's called KOTH. Or you can go to the DA and often times find a bunch of guys flying around at a private field with those EXACT rules. Everyone flys around until two people find an opponent that isn't fighting.

Furballs are fun. You could call the early stages of a horde a furball, and that's essentially what it is. I don't expect a 1v1 in there, but I would enjoy it.

But hordes are not fun. Why? Its easy to slay lemmings, like CoD easy. But that gets boring fast. If you maneuver fight in a horde, you die, especially in a K4. That leaves E fighting vets as the other option. Here we run into the same problems with slaying lemmings: it gets old fast.

As to your excessively sarcastic suggestion about rules, that's not at all what I'm saying or want.

Ideally we would have a lot more, but smaller groups dispersed over the map. Fights would be abundant, but not so large that they stagnate and preclude skill from overcoming numbers.

But no, you want to dilute the skilled player to lemming ratio even further. I really don't understand your desire to fight enemies who might very well be easier to kill than the offline mission bots.

So you really expected to fly into a furball and find a 1v1 fight.

No, don't put words in my mouth.

If the best place to find those kind of fights is on the fringe of combat, why don't you just do that? It sounds like you know how to find what you're looking for. I'll tell you why, because you are too impatient. You want it all to go your way when and how you want. When you win it's GREAT, when you lose it's the hordes fault. You want something that is not possible because you don't clearly understand how your idea of fun would ruin YOUR GAME if you got it. Ask just about any of the muppets how many people join those private field duels on average. Not many, because it's fun, but NOT AS FUN as the MA.

I don't want more witless newbs with CoD level mentality and social skills because it would make finding those good fights harder. Its easy enough to find hordes, there's a big red line that follows them on your clipboard map.

You obviously lack a basic understanding of how increasing numbers will affect dispersion.

Anyway, efforts should revolve around making it easier for the other half of AH to find fights they enjoy.

The bottom line is, nobody likes to get shot down and when they do some of them become emotional and irrational. Then they come to the boards to vent about how ridiculous the hordes are. There are dozens of them chiming in here and making the same complaints but I don't see any of you getting together every day when you log in and having private 1v1's in the DA. Why is that? There are so many of you out there.

If my opponent flew better than me, and earned his kill with skill, I'm perfectly happy to be shot down. And that's something you seem to not understand. The outcome of the fight is entirely irrelevant for a fair number of people. What they care about is how hard they had to work for the kill, or how hard they made their opponent work.

I seem to recall that there are even player moderated arenas now, why isn't there a bunch of guys doing this according to these 1v1 rules? I'll tell you why, because what you think you want doesn't work. It's not that fun. It's been done and I am sure is still being done on a regular basis in the DA, but it gets boring and every one of them go back to the MA where the real fun is.

I could ask the same of your group. Considering many who think like me have been doing this since AW, I think we have seniority. Also, you don't care if you do the same thing over and over, while we do.

Both say you should move, not us.

As to the DA thing, it gets predictable. You don't care, you move.

You have no business calling any free players idiotic considering your comments. There would likely be the same percentage of retardedness in free players as there are in paying players.

If they fly and play like idiots, I get to call them idiots. And unless they bring in more money than paying players, the paying players are far far more important as community members.

And they most certainly would be dumber on average. Or at least less mature and rational. FTP has more kids, because its free. That means more annoying spamming, trolling, and retardation per capita.

[muzik]

The bolded line is my favorite line in all this. What it says to me is the person wrote it doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about.

Nothing in this game has changed so significantly that I can't understand exactly what is going on in game.

In the port mission I mentioned about I saw...

So what you are saying is you single handedly attacked a horde took some pot shots and ran from the pissed off horde. You mistakenly thought you were going to attack 2 f6s and forgot the hundreds of times when you had upped to go after one or two, just to find when you got there a lot more enemy had showed up. But your lack of foresight is the hordes fault.

Even grabbing 10 guys for defense...

Hey, I'm not saying the way things are is right or perfect. I have many ideas on how to change the conditions of the hordes, but as I said when you were complaining about the hordes over two years ago, they are not the problem, the game set up is.

Insignificant numbers and stats deleted ...subscriptions are dropping. Why? Maybe it's because of the economy, but I'm thinking people are bored and so move on to another game.

We are still in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression. It is not going away any time soon despite what little optimistic news you see or how stable your job is. It has an effect.

If you don't get into this game, and I really mean get into it... If all you do is to up a heavy fighter... then how long until you get bored with doing that? If that is the "be all and end all" of your experience with this game I'm surprised people last more than a couple months.

You just proved my point. It takes a long time to REALLY get into this game. So free access to this game for much longer than two weeks is needed to allow people to get a real feel for the game. And you are throwing in "heavy fighters" to make your argument when I clearly said hanger queens like I16s were free, not fully loaded Jugs. And again you make my point. How long do you think people are going to fly I16s until they get bored with them and be forced to subscribe to get more access?

You are the one insisting that the free players are guaranteed to horde so why would they keep playing free if they cant join the horde other than to fly I16s?

I'm curious "Muzik" why did you leave? Money, or were you just bored? Even picking "lemmings" in the horde is boring. I am so thankful for those players who use small groups to pick fights while trying to take bases. These are the guys I like to hang around with. Win or lose, it's always fun.

I left because I played the game more than I should and because I had other things that I wanted to do. This game structure has not significantly changed since Air Warrior and the "hordes" have not changed their behavior either, they have only grown in size with bigger servers. Your boredom has nothing to do with the horde and everything to do with the lack of real changes in the game.

As to your excessively sarcastic suggestion about rules, that's not at all what I'm saying or want.

That's exactly what you are asking for. A horde to you is a group that is too overwhelming to fight and survive realistically, so you want a way to limit the numbers in a horde so that fights are more balanced because you are looking for that one perfect fight MORE OFTEN. You aren't happy with those perfect fights happening naturally, you want them to be predictable, controllable and if you get jumped then it's the hordes fault not yours for that.

Let me tell you, I proposed an idea in the wishlist years ago to limit the number of uppers at a base for much the same reason. And I still agree with you that it should be done, but not ONLY to control hordes, but to make the game more strategic and to change the way the game is played to some degree. The perfect fights may become more frequent this way, but we should NEVER eliminate the possibility of a horde.

But no, you want to dilute the skilled player to lemming ratio even further. I really don't understand your desire to fight enemies who might very well be easier to kill than the offline mission bots.

I don't want more witless newbs with CoD level mentality and social skills because it would make finding those good fights harder. Its easy enough to find hordes, there's a big red line that follows them on your clipboard map.

You obviously lack a basic understanding of how increasing numbers will affect dispersion.

I don't want to dilute anything and you are the one who lacks understanding of human nature. Statistics don't lie, and the fact  that you keep calling an entire group of people whom you have never met, lemmings, idiots, witless newbs and whatever other garbage coming through your keyboard tells me that your intelligence is debatable. There will be a percentage of them who cause trouble and there will be those who wont. If there were statistics out there that told us how many have come through AH fit these categories they would be similar.

If my opponent flew better than me, and earned his kill with skill, I'm perfectly happy to be shot down. And that's something you seem to not understand. The outcome of the fight is entirely irrelevant for a fair number of people. What they care about is how hard they had to work for the kill, or how hard they made their opponent work.

And this is more baloney. If this were true, then like I said, why aren't all of these guys in their own arena or in the DA? Because there is more to this game than just the fight. No one is forcing them to play in the MA. No one is suggesting that they find their own arena either. If the majority of these people wanted what you wanted, there would be some informal rules passed along by word of mouth just like there were in the DA.

I could ask the same of your group. Considering many who think like me have been doing this since AW, I think we have seniority. Also, you don't care if you do the same thing over and over, while we do.
Both say you should move, not us.
As to the DA thing, it gets predictable. You don't care, you move.

The reason I don't go is because the people who agree with me are in the MA, I am not the minority, you are. If the hordes disgusted them that much they would go else where. If they wanted to fly and fight the way you want to, they would go to the DA and create special rules. And they do, but most of the time they can't get anyone to go because nobody really want's what you want. And after a while in the DA, they get bored and go back to the hordes.

It's obvious, the proof is right in front of you every day yet here you are complaining and calling other people idiots when you can't see the truth.

Everyone has some frustration with the hordes, but not everyone thinks they are the cause of their frustration. Many people take responsibility for their own bad choices.

The game can be changed slightly, but if you try to take hordes away completely it will ruin the game by taking away the big bad antagonist. Just like your favorite movie, there always has to be a bad guy that makes you want to see how it turns out. Take the bad guy out of the story and it gets dull and uninteresting. The better the bad guy, the better the movie.

You can think of the MA hordes like a bad girlfriend, you want to leave, but the chicken's too good to let go.

And the point that BOTH of you keep trying to make, you have no evidence to back up. You both keep accusing an entire population of players of being hording idiots and they haven't even joined the game yet. BRILLIANT 

[The Fugitive]

Muzik, I have had this discussion many times over the years with many players, and you know what the one thing all of those players who stand on your side of the fence have in common.... most of them no longer play the game, like you.

I know the economy is bad, I was laid off Dec 7.... another reason to remember that day... but I will continue to send HTC my money as long as I can. I have NEVER stopped sending money to them for over 11 years. Before that it was Gamestorm and Air Warrior. This game has everything it needs to be a great strategic, tactical war game. Unfortunately unlike the old days, players don't join to "pretend" to be WWII pilots, now it is more along the line of a goal orientated game. Win the War!!! Add "free players" and all they are going to do is try to win the war like the "hordes" do now. Adding more people is only going to increase the hordes. Nothing in the game is geared to breaking up the hordes, adding free players isn't going to fix it.

Until the horde issue is fixed adding people is only going to make the revolving door of subscriptions spin faster.

As you don't play any more how could you possibly understand how I play, where I play, what my expectations are? You can't even follow my comments. I did say when I saw the 2 F6's that I was hoping it was a small enterprising group looking to grab the port. I also said these are the type of fights I look for and those are the type of players I like to play with. Instead of understanding what I was looking for and hoping to find as I do many times you blamed my lack of foresight as the problem and not the horde. After finding a horde I did the best I could, trying to kill off the goon before he dropped giving my team time to maybe launch a defense, which we all know that once you kill a few the other crash or run and they call the "mission" a bust because they have no real skill in playing the game other than overwhellming numbers.

An extra 30 guys in I16s isn't going to make that situation better. Sure some pickers will grab them selves a few easy kills, but again the challenge is gone. Remember the football team that never loses? Whats the point? Freeplay isn't the way to go.

You want players to join up, and stay? TEACH THEM! Teach them whats available, teach them how to use it, teach them how to play other than just racing to "win the war". Too many kids running too many "clans" and sticking to the old tried and true "get 30 guys to up heavy fighters, fly NOE to target and hope enough guys hit something to get the town white flagged and the troops get in.

Yes we need more people to play, but we need the "right" people. We need people looking to learn how to play all facets of this game. We need players who when they build a squad "lead" that squad, not just run with the horde. Gone are the great nights of flying for hours on end banging heads with certain squads. Instead we get players logging on talking crap about how good they are until people either just log off, or report them. Yup we certainly need more of those adolescents. They don''t have to pay to play so there is no consequence for their stupidity. We need people that are going to bring positives to the game and community, not more crap.

When you pay for something you respect it a bit more, you value it a bit more, unless of course "Mommy" is the one paying for it. We don't need Free to Play.         

[Tank-Ace]

Muzik, you don't know what I want. Quite clearly you don't.

I don't want structured fights, I want to be able to bump into a good stick at least once a day of playing, which wasn't happening when I left.

I want to see more skilled play, instead of hordes trying to take bases with every 3rd guy lawndarting on the bomb run.

 I want to ENCOURAGE smaller groups, so fights will be smaller but more common. Nobody would have problems finding fights, teamwork is present, skill is more important than numbers, and base takers can still take bases.

The only group who is disadvantaged are those who want to take bases without any real fighting, which is against the focus of the game.


 Also, its easier for your group to move, the group I support was here first, and it would require constant setup for our group to go to a player-created arena.... but there's more of you.

I really don't get your logic. Really seems like you're trying to make a nuisance of yourself.

[kvuo75]

This game has everything it needs to be a great strategic, tactical war game. Unfortunately unlike the old days, players don't join to "pretend" to be WWII pilots, now it is more along the line of a goal orientated game. Win the War!!! Add "free players" and all they are going to do is try to win the war like the "hordes" do now. Adding more people is only going to increase the hordes. Nothing in the game is geared to breaking up the hordes, adding free players isn't going to fix it.


Yes we need more people to play, but we need the "right" people. We need people looking to learn how to play all facets of this game. We need players who when they build a squad "lead" that squad, not just run with the horde. Gone are the great nights of flying for hours on end banging heads with certain squads. Instead we get players logging on talking crap about how good they are until people either just log off, or report them. Yup we certainly need more of those adolescents. They don''t have to pay to play so there is no consequence for their stupidity. We need people that are going to bring positives to the game and community, not more crap.

When you pay for something you respect it a bit more, you value it a bit more, unless of course "Mommy" is the one paying for it. We don't need Free to Play.         

I agree with you to a degree..  I've been playing this type of game off and on since 1995.. i remmber hitech flying the first b17 in the confirmed kill beta arena.   I have fully taken the transition from noob to hordlet to lone wolf. the only thing I know, is some people are better at this game than others, and everyone else needs to find something fun to do, or just squealing quit already.

[muzik]

everyone else needs to find something fun to do, or just squealing quit already.

Why do you have to be so concise?

.... most of them no longer play the game, like you.

My not being there has more to do with split arenas than hordes, but even that is a stretch.

This game has everything it needs to be a great strategic, tactical war game.

Except the right controls in place.

Unfortunately unlike the old days, players don't join to "pretend" to be WWII pilots, now it is more along the line of a goal orientated game.

Agreed. Because of the rules.

Add "free players" and all they are going to do is try to win the war like the "hordes" do now. Adding more people is only going to increase the hordes. Nothing in the game is geared to breaking up the hordes, adding free players isn't going to fix it.

Agreed, Agreed, Agreed...because this is how the game is designed to play out, hence the RULES comment. And hordes did the same thing in AW, they were just a little smaller.

Until the horde issue is fixed adding people is only going to make the revolving door of subscriptions spin faster.

Disagreed, misconception. If they aren't leaving because of the hordes now they aren't going to do it later and again statistically there will be the same amount of hordlets and troublemakers in the free group but there will be some that won't be able to resist subscribing.

As you don't play any more how could you possibly understand how I play, where I play, what my expectations are? You can't even follow my comments.

I have played this game off and on for 15 years, that's how I know and understand. And your comments were crystal clear, I followed every word. Your response was because i did exactly what you and Tank were doing, WAY over generalizing and drawing false indefensible conclusions. I have complete confidence you didn't really go in there without any clue that you might get jumped. But you still complained about it as if you had. You have played long enough to know to expect those things. But still again, you can't blame the horde for you being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

An extra 30 guys in I16s isn't going to make that situation better.

Glad you came up with a number. Is 30 guys really going to hurt the game that much? There were thousands more playing before, but 30 more will destroy the game?

Sure some pickers will grab them selves a few easy kills, but again the challenge is gone. Remember the football team that never loses? Whats the point?

Easy, guilt free kills. And again, the challenge isn't any different. There are still thousands of paying players with better equipment and the challenge is gone when you do the same thing for 15 years and don't develop new challenges. Ask any 40 year old pro athlete if they still have the passion they had when they were 20. Face it, we are getting old and 10+ years is a long time to play a game. The point is to bring in new players.

You want players to join up, and stay? TEACH THEM!

There's already a training corps and that doesn't change anything when they teach them to PLAY BY THE RULES THAT ARE IN PLACE.

Yes we need more people to play, but we need the "right" people.

You need to quit being so pessimistic and trust that those who are drawn to this game, whether it's free or not, are those that have an interest in WW2 aviation and a desire to experience a fantasy just like everyone else in this game. Some don't take it as serious as we would like, but neither did all ww2 pilots. To some it was a naive fantasy until they got in and realized that war is still dangerous in the air. You can't change human nature no matter how much you complain. You can change the rules of the game.

When you pay for something you respect it a bit more, you value it a bit more, unless of course "Mommy" is the one paying for it. We don't need Free to Play.         

So if Hitechs kid was old enough to play now, it's safe to say you wouldn't approve. I agree, when you pay you respect it more. But there are those who have payed for this game and don't respect it at all. You have a preconceived notion of what the free players will be like and no evidence to back it up. If you love the game so much, then why aren't you open to trying anything and everything that might benefit the game and you?

Tell you what, I'm getting bored with this argument, why don't we just agree that you will give it a shot AFTER Htc, changes the rules to see if the horde changes its stripes a bit.

Muzik, you don't know what I want. Quite clearly you don't.

I don't want structured fights, I want to be able to bump into a good stick at least once a day of playing, which wasn't happening when I left.

I want to see more skilled play, instead of hordes trying to take bases with every 3rd guy lawndarting on the bomb run.

 I want to ENCOURAGE smaller groups, so fights will be smaller but more common. Nobody would have problems finding fights, teamwork is present, skill is more important than numbers, and base takers can still take bases.

The only group who is disadvantaged are those who want to take bases without any real fighting, which is against the focus of the game.


 Also, its easier for your group to move, the group I support was here first, and it would require constant setup for our group to go to a player-created arena.... but there's more of you.

I really don't get your logic. Really seems like you're trying to make a nuisance of yourself.

I get the impression that I have played these games years longer than you Tank but regardless, I've been there and done that. There is nothing you have stated that you want that I haven't also felt. I grew and evolved out of those initial frustrations to realize there are certain things that you have to adapt to. If you have been listening you would see I agree that the hordes are sometimes out of control. What you don't want to accept is that if you stop hording, the game takes on a completely different dynamic and will be even more boring.

As for finding more "skilled" play. I wager there is more skill at play in the game than you can handle.

You weren't here first. If people like you outnumber people like me, then where are the hordes coming from? The hordes were here long before you came along.

Your the one complaining, but I'm being a nuisance?