Rash of 109s and 190s

[Karnak]

I love the spit14 but i hope we can agree it is one of the most unstable aircraft at low speeds in AH and IMO inferior to the K4.

Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.

It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.

[Nath[BDP]]

Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.

It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.

Yes it is.  The Spit XIV FM befuddles me

[Lusche]

but when was the time where there was one LW arena during the "day" and two during "night"?

Between Nov 10 and June 11, well after the drop in numbers happened. Both events, The Great Arena Split as well as going back to single LW in two steps, had no apparent  impact on fighter usage. But for discussion about this and similar topics, let's take it to the upcoming stats thread I'm going to create in a few minutes.

[BaldEagl]

Yet the Spit XIV is perked and the Bf109K-4, with twice the WEP, is not only free but not very low ENYed either.

It is odd though, Capt. Eric Brown found the Spitfire Mk XIV to be one of the three best piston engined air superiority fighters of the war, the other two being the Fw190D-9 and F4U-4.

Being a Split time Spit/Luftwaffe guy (with the occasional Grumman thrown in) I flew a Spit XIV in a scenario a year or so ago.  Even though I fly Spits a lot I only take the XIV on rare occasions.

What opened my eyes during the scenario is that at the speeds that K-4's and Dora's fly the XIV can't stay with them in a turn, particularly if the fight got low.  You can't roll into the turn as fast and lose ground every time.  Rudder doesn't help.  It took until the last frame of the scenario before I learned I had to chop throttle during any manouvers just to have a chance but in doing so I took the chance that the opponent would extend safely and then I didn't have the speed to catch up at low alt.

I was also surprised at how well the 109's fared at high alts.  While I had the advantage in the vertical that was my only advantage.  We only had three pilots in our squad at our peak in that scenario and while I was able to use the vert to stay alive alone against, at one time, six or more K-4's it was not an easy task.

Even if the perk were removed from the Spit XIV the 109K-4 is all around a far better plane.

[Bruv119]

For Bruv: is that the D9's flight what you demonstrated in the TOC/koth? Nope, good sir, i refuse that kind of flying. There are enough from those ponies, 190s, lalas, 109s, mjugs, even a couple spits too out there, no need for one more 190 flying that way.
Give me a valid reason to stop hating, please, and i will do it instantly and happily.

You discoed as a wabbit,  upped after everyone had extended away, of course I had altitude and E.  KOTH rule #1 all wabbits must die in any which way possible.

It even made it more difficult for me to kill you at the time because the 190 is difficult to pull enough lead with excess speed.   You did your best to wriggle free and I got lucky that you too missed after I had killed most of my E to attack you properly.   Of course you forget that and think I wasn't trying to fight.   Not my fault you discoed, not my fault you were a wabbit and had to be killed.   

[Debrody]

You act like there was only one case.                                                                                           There was? There wasnt even one? This debbypoo is a liar?
You act like you were trying to fight.                                                                                            Were you? For the first sight of danger, pull up, aye...
You act like an endless rope-a-dope would be a fight (january frikoth... lasted like 5 mins... congrats, really...)
You act like it would be that amazingly hard to BnZ a newb on the deck.
You... you have no class, good sir.
Yet you ask me not to hate you from my guts. Fine. So you throw some more crap on me and except me to clap my hands for your awesomeness, you great champion, you? Never.
Thanks you for the valid reason to stop hating you. It will happen. Or not.

[thrila]

woah dude!  where did that come from?

Anyways, unperk the spit 14

[Babalonian]

^^^ what he said.. 

Sarcasm, I get it!   

(since when has the AoM had the bawls to fly the 190, consistently? )

I blame Midway and the whole anti Spitfire crowd. 

They are just jealous that the Spitfire's awesomeness will always make them look fat and Ugly in their B38's and emo Luft rides.   As an in built defensive mechanism they cry easy mode soon as someone with a better appreciation of the Flight Model and ACM comes along and woops them in anything they choose from the hangar. 

I will fly more Spitfire sorties as a result of this alarming news.   

Of cource, you would blame the biggest dweeb in a spit and those of us who call out ALL THE DWEEBS in spits, first and foremost.    

Denial, it's more than just a river in N. Africa Bruv.

[ink]

no one has mentioned and to me it is the one thing that separates the spits from all the others and what makes it so easy mode(for EVERYONE)
its responsiveness is far and above every other fighter, this is what makes it so easy mode.

I agree all planes are easy mode for the one who studies that plane, but it still comes down to each wannabe pilots ability....the spit 8 is far beyond say a P40, but a master in a P40 will most likely kill a mediocre stick in the spit....doesn't make the P40 easy mode.

[muzik]

Muzik,
what did you want to prove with that? The Spitfire is a better plane than the 109? Of course, you are right, its one of the very best aircrafts. Ergo is it ridiculously easy to fly? How the bloody hell not?
My/our point is: what is more of fighting, turning spits with 109 or vice versa? Let them decide    Also, an experienced pilot flying the easyest easy mode plane and talking big is something weird, dont you think so?

I don't remember who they were to, but my response was not personal Debrody. I guess if I was to plan it out, it would be to prove all of these aircraft bashing arguments are acts of insane futility.

Case in point, the runstang chronicles.

Of course the spit is easy mode. We all know it, so what's the point in repeating it again and/or trying to smear that fact in others faces? And yes, I would agree with your comments literal meaning, an experienced pilot flying the easy mode a/c and smack talking when he kills someone (other than the same a/c in a duel) is "weird." I would use the word "lame" or "pathetic."

I don't agree with your comments subtext, "flying a 109 makes me more manly than you" argument. Which seems to be the basis of 90% of these discussions. I will grant that the 109 is a harder plane to fly, learn, and get good in. Props to those of you who do. But if you don't dominate in EVERY aircraft, and I mean every single one, then the fact that you are the best in the hardest to learn means little to nothing. It just means you were more dedicated to learning that one and that it was your choice to do so. I would wager that if anyone in this game was as attracted to the 109 as much as you, they would be just as good they are capable of being in the aircraft they left behind.

None of the aircraft in this game reign supreme.

Personally, for the most part I have always chosen my favorite aircraft for more petty and childish reasons, "that plane looks FRIKKEN SWEET DUDE." Anyone who says the German designers make better looking aircraft than anyone else is absolutely insane. Like some twit looking at a completely meaningless painting of scribles and paint splatters and says, "this painting represents the deep societal and political strife that the underprivelaged of inner city New York...buttfingeringcontinues ."

[RELIC]

Seems like that sideways nose stall cobrinski stuff is all prevalent these days.  From all the people I've fought since I returned I appreciate Bruv's ACM. Doesn't resort to moves like that to make up for lack of ACM prowess.

Since I returned I have been pretty much blown away at the capabilities of the 109 FM specifically the K4 compared to when I left in 2005.  It can do such crazy out of flight envelop stuff without any noticeable side effects, including that cobra maneuver when it lets you drop your speed to 0 MPH and then auto corrects you out of it and bounces speed back up to normal instantly.  I don't see any other plane that can do that so well and instantly (the P47 and F4U might approach it, but the vertical abilities of the K4 set it apart especially being able to regain the vertical in scissors), the Spit will just go into a spin if you take it that low with that cobra maneuver.  

For what its worth I have flown 109s and 190s in AH since the game started.  I have every desire to see the performance of these planes reaching X Wing vs TIE Fighter levels but the things the current FM allows now without any disadvantage is just cray cray.  

Combined with its current FM and the 30mm, you have a plane that is nearly untouchable and after a few iterations can handle most things in a knife fight.  I rather miss when the G10/K4 were less accessible to people.

I agree.  I used to get into stall fights against K4's with a fairly good measure of success.  Now I have a hell of a time against them.  I've noticed the A5 seems more lethal too.  I just figured I was getting worse...

[Ruah]

The FIGHTER USAGE (kill+deaths) share of all 109's and 190's (including Ta 152H) compared to the P-51D alone. Keep in mind the current tour is only halfway through.

(Image removed from quote.)

please distinguish 190s and 109s:

190 Dora is a runner/picker e-superiority fighter and in my opinion those pilots may as well fly a 51 or a 47M.  However, the 190 A, while not as dominating, is an excellent dog-fighter and any 51 pilot who decides to step 'down' to a mid-war plane is only an improvement.  This principle remains the same for the 109 - the K4 is mighty, and to be frank, easy if flown in a high e, low risk fashion.  Taters are tricky, but it can be mastered to a degree.  But again look at the 109 G2 or F4, both brilliant planes and more truly 109 as we see them in AH. 

It is nice to see people throw away the weird meta 'country' game (strategic interests and zerging/hording/pushing for a 'win') and get into a mindset to dogfight. . .and I for one enjoy those moments win or lose.

[Changeup]

I hate German planes because theyre hard to fly.

The END.

[Oldman731]

This principle remains the same for the 109 - the K4 is mighty, and to be frank, easy if flown in a high e, low risk fashion.  Taters are tricky, but it can be mastered to a degree.  But again look at the 109 G2 or F4, both brilliant planes and more truly 109 as we see them in AH. 

Real men fly G6s.

Just saying.

- oldman (with a <S> to Pasha)

[kappa]

Sarcasm, I get it!  

(since when has the AoM had the bawls to fly the 190, consistently? )

umm.. i think I had more kills in the 190a5 in 2012 than anyone in the game.. prolly pretty close now too I would guess. I dunno if that equals your definition of consistent or not..


edit:  actually maybe it was 2011... I may not have flown that much in 2012.. im getting old..