He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!

[Babalonian]

edit: in reply to babs:

If you watch your bombs drop from the bombsight you'll notice they already have random dispersal built into them. They aren't laser accurate, at all. Most times you'll hit your target with blast radius rather than direct hit. Ju88 external bombs scatter rather excessively if you watch them.

I'm just wondering if the AH bombs are hard-coded to drop a certain way, or if the very nature of these bombs falling "nose down" will have AH's bomb code compute the new drop rate automatically (on the fly, if you will). Will HTC need to recode these new bombs, or it is already taken care of with current code?

I've noted the randomness (and it seems to actualy impact larger bombs more, such as the Ju88s 500kgs or even 1k/2ks dropped from US buffs) I may completely miss with one these days), but it doesn't get close to making you "miss" your target, even at over 30k altitude, if you use proper technique (consistent speed, heading, good calibration, no turning, etc.).  And I'm talking direct hits.  You know your lead bombers bomb will hit the target and the two others in your formation will inflict blast radius damage if not direct hits - this is nothing new.  As long as I can remember, hanger-busting regulars preffer 500lb bombs used in salvos of three for 2500lb targets over three 1000lb bombs in a single salvo, why?  Because of the nature of flying in formation, but also the nature of dropping bombs in formation in this game (with the constant guarentee that 1/3 will hit direct and 2/3 will inflict partial "splash" damage).  

In short, if you knew before the randomness was implimented (or increased more recently, may be a more accurate statement) with 2500lb targets in mind, and that single 1k bombs dropped wasn't a guarentee anyway, so you prefered salvoing 3 500lb bombs instead - the change was minute to unobserved.

Knowing that it will be 50kg bombs, and that the smaller the bombs the less they are effected by the code to give some randomness, I again ask Krusty - will it really matter or even be noticable within the game and the current accuracy achievable with them?

[Babalonian]

THe H-5 variant with the 2k mentione din Krankys write up.

EDIT: Alspo not everyone has to milkrun in a fast bomber. I even take up the Dauntless to bomb a carrier from time to time. Ive done strat raids in 88's

I LOVE strat raids in the 88s... I only WISH it had external fuel tanks (in supliment of the external ords) or a varient with greater range.  *looks to see what map is up on the MAs*  REALLY WISH.

I see we got a pretty crappy version of the He-111. It looks nice though. It'll probably get most of its use in the EWA.

So then, mr. knows better, what's your crappy suggestion, instead hmmm?....      

You have to remember the flak box's size is determined by Speed, Distance and G's so if your in a bomber moving sklowly you flak box should be pretty large.

I thought it was vice versa, slower speed, less distance, low Gs = smaller and more lethal "flak box"?

Speed wasn't the only consideration... During the attack on the Bismark, the Swordfish torpedo bombers were flying so slow that the guns had a hard time targetting them. The bombers' speed was below that of the minimum lead targetting for the guns, so the guns were shooting for faster planes and missing.

I think size of target is also an issue. Altitude as well. While it's good to narrow the box on level bombers in formation, a TBM at sea level would be a tougher target. Not only does the water make it hard to see how far off your hits are (for gun crews) and adjust, but the low level was often hard to aim at due to minimal gun depression angles. If a ship was listing even only slightly there was a chance one entire side of the ship was undefended. There were many times in WW2 when the torp bombers attacked a ship from one side because it was listing the other way, and got away with it. This is how the IJA finished off the Prince of Wales, if I recall. POW was only listing some 11.5 degrees, and the 5" guns couldn't aim at attackers at all from that side.

I think some kind of consideration for torpedo bombers would be warranted, and wise.

Implimenting a traverse speed is a good idea that would likely help torpedo planes attackng enemy CVs.  But it shouldn't be an exploit so IE: that a 500+ MPH 262 (or particularly Arado 234s) has a cake walk picking planes landing or taking off from the CV.

Good thoughts about the hitboxes, I'm chewing on it.  The problem Im thinking of out the gate and as you listed - how to work around that auto-AAA has no problem seeing a target being masked by water spray where manned gunners do (except 5" guns, which seriously should see a "nerf" given in comparison to 88-gunners who have to actually work for it...  shoot ballpark where all the auto-AAA tracers are going - bingo!).... 

think think think....

[skorpx1]

Not so sure about "crappy" version of it. We need HTC to chime in with what variant it really is. There was a wide difference between He-111H-1 and He-111H-5, but all they label it as is "He-111H" -- which doesn't help. The H line went up to He-111H-22 later in the war, where these bombers air-launched V-1 buzz bombs.

Clearly we don't have the H-22 version, but for the sake of BOB use it would be nice to have HTC give us one that represents the BOB time frame.

With what looks like 6x MG34's as defense, and a smaller bomb load i'd say it isn't exactly stellar in performance. The single gun protruding out of the rear of the cockpit and the two out of the sides don't really seem all too threatening to someone that knows what they're doing. A single FM2 could probably bring down a formation of 111's with two, maybe 3 passes. My guess is that its an He-111H1 or H2.

[Motherland]

With what looks like 6x MG34's as defense, and a smaller bomb load i'd say it isn't exactly stellar in performance. The single gun protruding out of the rear of the cockpit and the two out of the sides don't really seem all too threatening to someone that knows what they're doing. A single FM2 could probably bring down a formation of 111's with two, maybe 3 passes. My guess is that its an He-111H1 or H2.

Imagine

An aircraft from 1944 bringing down an aircraft from 1940 with ease

just imagine



who was expecting the He 111 to be an uber bomber?

[palef]

After the "newness" wears off over the first month or two, I see the He111 getting used just as much of not more than the B25's, and perhaps only slightly behind the B26's.  Time will tell.   

Lol - new definition of "Delusion" added to the DSM.

[Plawranc]

You guys may not think it would get much use.

But the Troll Patrol will beg to differ 

HE-111 Sweep anybody?

[skorpx1]

Imagine

An aircraft from 1944 bringing down an aircraft from 1940 with ease

just imagine



who was expecting the He 111 to be an uber bomber?

The He-111 will be used a lot in the first week or two that its in game, especially in the LWA. Even a Spit 5 could bring that thing down with ease. If it were a different model of the 111, like the H-10, maybe it'd be a lot more dangerous to the attackers in the MA's.

[Krusty]

My guess is that its an He-111H1 or H2.

And yet it has external hardpoints only instituted in the H4, and toprs only used on the H5.

Question is: Did they just give us an H5 from 1941 and are telling us to use a faster plane for BOB? Or did they give us the BOB variant and are giving us torps as a freebie?

[Fish42]

Question is: Did they just give us an H5 from 1941 and are telling us to use a faster plane for BOB? Or did they give us the BOB variant and are giving us torps as a freebie?

I hope its the second one. though with the external racks(loaded) and the older engines it maybe a real dog to get into the air.

[Krusty]

Knowing that it will be 50kg bombs, and that the smaller the bombs the less they are effected by the code to give some randomness, I again ask Krusty - will it really matter or even be noticable within the game and the current accuracy achievable with them?

To answer the second part first:
For the same reason we want accurate ballistics for various different guns. For the same reason firing bullets down range has gravity-assistance vs firing guns flat and level. It matters because they fell differently. They fell faster, and more accurately. Same as a bullet tumbling downward vs a bullet fired downward.

To answer the first part:
It wasn't just 50kg. The He111 had 2 vertical bays, with 4 racks each left and right (total 8). These bays could be modularized to hold different sized bombs, ranging from 250kg down to 50kg. In the case of 50kg, you could fit 4 of them into one rack on a smaller sub-rack inside the vertical storage container.

So it's not just the 50kg, but in this case includes the larger bombs as well.

[Ack-Ack]

And yet it has external hardpoints only instituted in the H4, and toprs only used on the H5.

Question is: Did they just give us an H5 from 1941 and are telling us to use a faster plane for BOB? Or did they give us the BOB variant and are giving us torps as a freebie?

Wasn't the He-111 H-6 the one that was outfitted to carry two LT F5b torpedoes while the H-5 was outfitted with the ETC 2000 external bomb racks to allow it to carry the SC 2500 bomb externally since an extra fuel tank was added to the internal bomb bay?  I know the H-5 was intended to be a long range torpedo bomber but I don't think it was ever used in that role, instead torpedo carrying duties went to the H-6.

ack-ack

[Krusty]

Well, I was focusing more on the variants immediately around the BOB. The H6 is known for the torpedoes, yes, but they were first introduced in the H5. Hence the feature is at least up to H5, if not H6.

So, yes, but I was trying to focus on the earlier marks. It is intended to be one.

[ink]

hey always need another target

[Gixer]

What a joke, another useless hangar queen, you guys will be all excited about it and use it for a couple weeks then back to the usual toys once you realise getting killed easily just like in the JU88 isn't so much fun after all. Oh but it does look nice, and maybe there a scenario a few times a year where it can be used. Great.

How about AH concentrate on completing all the existing plane set to AH2 before releasing any new hangar queens!

Update the Yak already it's only been 10 years and still waiting.   


<S>...-Gixer

[Babalonian]

What a joke, another useless hangar queen, you guys will be all excited about it and use it for a couple weeks then back to the usual toys once you realise getting killed easily just like in the JU88 isn't so much fun after all. Oh but it does look nice, and maybe there a scenario a few times a year where it can be used. Great.

How about AH concentrate on completing all the existing plane set to AH2 before releasing any new hangar queens!

Update the Yak already it's only been 10 years and still waiting.   


<S>...-Gixer

Yes, update the Yak that was already given/intorduced to the game for years before giving us a plane that has been asked for since the game released.   


We have nothing to compare or supliment the He111 in the game, yet we have two yak models, clearly this is a self-centered desire ultimatley fulfilled and not a longstanding community wishlist item....